# Fork Hillary 3: The Final Forking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726 "2008-03-18T00:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 96
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1901 "2008-05-23T16:04:15Z")
[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe] I would just like to add: Remember when Hillary lost NC and nearly lost IN? The consensus was that, “It’s really over for real this time, guys.” Someone opened up a Fork IV thread and a mod moved it to IMHO or somewhere else because the mood at the time was there was little to discuss? Well, yeah…H-Dawg don’t play like that. I’ve been drawing lines in the sand for her every step of the way. It’s like that Bugs Bunny / Yosemite Sam cartoon where Bugs draws a line on the ground and Sam steps across. Every time you think, “surely not. surely she won’t do it!” she does. That’s why I think she’s going to the convention. Did you guys notice that she’s going to have her supporters at the May 31 decision about FL and MI? Just like Rove shipped in that “mob” for the FL recount? It’s beyond irony. It’s like she took irony and bent it into a pretzel shape. She’s criticizing the democrats for obeying her wishes in September of 2007 by likening it to the FL recount of 2000 (and Mugabe?) by employing the tactics used against her party in said Florida recount in 2000, while also likening it to the civil rights movement despite the fact that she just finished playing “Vote for me because I’m white” in WV. So let me win because otherwise Mugabe / Bush / Hillary September 2007 / Obama / Anti-Civil Rights people / Black People will win otherwise. [/QUOTE] Nevermind …stupid board timeouts ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1902 "2008-05-23T16:23:14Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The slow down on the numbers of supers declaring for Obama is mildly worrying, but I suspect it’s probably just because we are now so close to the end of the Primary season that most of them are deciding they might as well wait it out. There are a bunch of them who are just so afarid of annoying a single constituent that I think they’re holding out hope that HRC will drop out before they have to step out into the sunlight and voice an opinion. I wonder what happened to Pelosi’s allleged faction of supers who she said would all declare as soon as one or the other had clinched a majority of PD’s. [/QUOTE] I wish y’all would stop with the worrying. Today’s superdelegate tally: Obama 2, Clinton -1 > [@](#): > > [http://thepage.time.com/obama-campaign-release-on-california-superdelegate-endorsements/](http://thepage.time.com/obama-campaign-release-on-california-superdelegate-endorsements/) > > CONGRESSMEN COSTA AND CARDOZA ENDORSE BARACK OBAMA FOR PRESIDENT > > Cardoza previously supported Clinton > > Chicago, IL – Today, United States Congressman Jim Costa (CA-20) and United States Congressman Dennis Cardoza endorsed Barack Obama for president. Congressman Cardoza previously supported Senator Hillary Clinton. > > These endorsements mean that Senator Obama has been endorsed by 310.5 superdelegates. Obama is 59 delegates away from securing the Democratic nomination. > > . . . ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1903 "2008-05-23T16:49:38Z")
Plus two more Edwards delegates, according to DCW, who will let us know who they are as soon as GP updates their pages. That brings us down to 67. It’d be nice if Edward’s Florida delegates would announce their intentions soon, that could make the RBC meeting almost moot (do they have any other duties besides FL and MI this year?). ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1904 "2008-05-23T17:39:03Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] Plus two more Edwards delegates, according to DCW, who will let us know who they are as soon as GP updates their pages. That brings us down to 67. It’d be nice if Edward’s Florida delegates would announce their intentions soon, that could make the RBC meeting almost moot (do they have any other duties besides FL and MI this year?). [/QUOTE] 57, not 67. Anyway, [it’s now 54,](http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096417366) with a commitment from one other who won’t officially announce until June 3, which would make it 53. > [@Rob Capriccioso - Indian Country Today](#): > > \*\* > Four Native superdelegates support Obama\*\* > WASHINGTON - Despite strong enthusiasm for Sen. Hillary Clinton in some areas of Indian country, Sen. Barack Obama has locked up the Native superdelegate vote in the Democratic race for president. > > Laurie Weahkee, an organizer with the Sacred Alliance for Grassroots Equality Council in New Mexico, has joined Kalyn Free, founder of the INDN’s List political organization, and Frank LaMere, chairman of the Democratic National Committee’s Native American Caucus, in vowing to cast a vote for the senator from Illinois at the Democratic National Convention to be held in Denver in August. > > A fourth American Indian superdelegate, Montana state Rep. Margarett Campbell, has said privately that she is supporting Obama, but she can’t officially endorse him until after Montana holds its primary on June 3, in accordance with state party rules. --more– ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1905 "2008-05-23T17:57:41Z")
So at this point, even if he splits all remaining pledged delegates evenly (I think there’s about 100 left, counting PR) he’ll go over 2024. Of course, Hillary is trying desperately to move that goal post, but I think Hasselhoff is going to cry on the 3rd. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1906 "2008-05-23T18:23:32Z")
**DtC** 86 pledged left. PR is a wild card to predict and half (43) may be optimisitc. He still needs supers. Not many but he needs some. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1907 "2008-05-23T18:51:39Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] **DtC** 86 pledged left. PR is a wild card to predict and half (43) may be optimisitc. He still needs supers. Not many but he needs some. [/QUOTE] Hm…[electoral-vote.com](http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Maps/May23.html) lists 25 delegates for Montana and 23 for SD. According to this [AP](http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jjxtmWM5aqHv56D3jgZOf49TVGWQD90LP7600) link, there are 55 delegates in Puerto Rico. That adds up to 103. He’s going to win MT and SD, so I figured netting 50 was a reasonable expectation. Is one of my sources wrong on the number of delegates left? ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1908 "2008-05-23T19:14:21Z")
You know… How is he going to win in the general if he can’t win Puerto Rico? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1909 "2008-05-23T19:18:15Z")
I used [realclearpolitics.](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_delegate_count.html) They say PR is 55, South Dakota is 15 and Montana is 16. I think that your source includes both pledged and superdelegates. [Yup.](http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Montana_2008_presidential_primary_and_superdelegates) It does. Now mind you some of those undeclared supers there are also “wobbling” to Obama. The path to the White House goes through Puerto Rico! ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1910 "2008-05-23T19:20:54Z")
Obama needs to charge up San Juan hill. I’ve heard that works. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1911 "2008-05-23T19:33:24Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] I wish y’all would stop with the worrying. Today’s superdelegate tally: Obama 2, Clinton -1 [/QUOTE] Hey! Did you miss page 38? ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1912 "2008-05-23T19:35:04Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Hm…[electoral-vote.com](http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Maps/May23.html) lists 25 delegates for Montana and 23 for SD. According to this [AP](http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jjxtmWM5aqHv56D3jgZOf49TVGWQD90LP7600) link, there are 55 delegates in Puerto Rico. That adds up to 103. He’s going to win MT and SD, so I figured netting 50 was a reasonable expectation. Is one of my sources wrong on the number of delegates left? [/QUOTE] Those numbers for Montana and SD include superdelegates. The pledged delegate numbers available are 16 and 15, respectively. Plus the 55 for PR makes 86. Regardless, the supers will probably make 43 all that’s needed by then, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1913 "2008-05-23T19:47:26Z")
Ah, those numbers included supers. I see. Still, even if he gets 40, that takes him right to the brink. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1914 "2008-05-23T20:02:54Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Hey! Did you miss page 38? [/QUOTE] I must have. But I don’t think I missed this one: [Today, Oregon superdelegate Jenny Greenleaf endorsed Barack Obama](http://thepage.time.com/obama-camp-release-on-oregon-superdelegate-endorsement/). . . New tally for the day: Obama 3, Clinton still -1 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1915 "2008-05-23T20:14:15Z")
My WAG is Obama will get ~34 delegates from PR, MT, and SD. Of course, by the time those primaries happen, [the RBC will have met](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=469141), and probably moved the goalposts somewhat. Chances are Obama needs at least another 50-60 supers or Edwards delegates to clinch the deal, in addition to what he wins in those three primaries. ---
**Author:** ![rikc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c57346/32.png) [@rikc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rikc)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1916 "2008-05-23T20:28:43Z")
Did she actually [raise the assassination issue](http://www.nypost.com/seven/05232008/news/nationalnews/why_hill_wont_drop_out__bobby_kennedy_wa_112232.htm) today? ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1917 "2008-05-23T20:42:13Z")
From the [NY Times](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/23/clinton-calls-vp-chatter-completely-untrue/index.html?hp) > [@](#): > > Senator Hillary Clinton just adamantly denied all reports that she has had any contact with Senator Barack Obama or his campaign about her exit from the race. She also referred to the assassination of Robert Kennedy in 1968 Democratic campaign as a reason she should continue to campaign. > > (…) > > She added that “people have been trying to push me out of this ever since Iowa,” where she came in third, behind Mr. Obama and former Senator John Edwards. > > Asked why, she said she didn’t know. “I find it curious, because it’s unprecedented in history,” she said, referring to this push she described to get her out. “Between my opponent and some in the media, there has been this urgency to end this, and historically that makes no sense. So I find it a bit of a mystery.” > > Historically, she said, nomination fights have gone on longer. “My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don’t understand it,” she said. > > Mr. Obama learned of the remark when he was traveling to a rally in South Florida. He was not expected to publicly discuss it, aides said. Instead, the campaign issued a one-line statement. > > “Senator Clinton’s statement before the Argus Leader editorial board was unfortunate and has no place in this campaign,” said Bill Burton, a campaign spokesman. In other words, she’s implying that he’s going to be assassinated, so people should vote for her!!! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1918 "2008-05-23T20:46:20Z")
[QUOTE=ratatoskK] From the [NY Times](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/23/clinton-calls-vp-chatter-completely-untrue/index.html?hp) In other words, she’s implying that he’s going to be assassinated, so people should vote for her!!! :mad: [/QUOTE] Yes… :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: indeed… You see what I’m talking about? It’s a new thing every day with her. She somehow manages to dig down deeper. Now we’ll have more hand-wringing, more outrage by anyone with any sense, and a solid percentage of pussy-ass superdelegates afraid to put an end to this. This should stop now. ETA: You don’t need to be “In the race” to get the nomination of Obama is assassinated ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1919 "2008-05-23T20:51:18Z")
Not to mention that comparing the 1992 primary calendar to the front-loaded 2008 one is completely irrelevant. The important part of her remark (other than the assassination thing) is “California”, not “June”. There is NOTHING to compare to California remaining in this primary season. There has been nothing on a California-scale of delegates since…well, California, in February. She’s either a mathematical idiot, in deep denial, or lying. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1920 "2008-05-23T20:52:17Z")
Maybe Hillary and Hucklebee should form a third party ticket. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=95) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=97)