Yes, that is it. Thank you! Remind me to name my next three children after you.
Their exact take on the problem of “denying” the nomination to a black guy who led in the primaries:
For some reason, this “scenario” makes me recall the race riots in the summer of '67.
We didn’t have riots (except for one small DeLay-manufactured one) when the *Presidency * went to a man who had lost the popular vote, and without having to count caucus attendees either. But if that happens to a close-fought nomination, we will? Really?
This is someone America can be proud of? I’m glad this got posted on Fark because i know it won’t get as much playtime as Rev. Wright, otherwise the race would be over.
Hey Elvis an easter anecdote if I may - I just got back from an Easter dinner with the family. One time when we are all together and the little nephews and neices all jump on Uncle Phlosphr as being the one cool uncle, you know the one that will climb a tree with them…to their mother’s chagrin. ANYWAY - I was in a room filled with Clintonites. Yes, it’s true not all of my family support Mr.Obama as much as I do. So I made it a point to bring a lot of rally signs and bumperstickers for those I may be able to convert after they’ve had their share of Easter Cocktails. LOL!!
The reason I am telling you any of this. My step-mother - nice woman, retired doctor, woman’s rights advocate, Wellesley Alum and of course voracious Clinton fan; approached me with an interesting accolade about her support of Clinton taken over a linear timeline and she has some interesting insights into how her support has changed and morphed from expecting a female president to looking deeper at who Clinton is as a woman and where she truly is telling people she wants to be. Bear with me.
Step-mother [will call her Sue], Sue explained that when she began liking Hillary was way back in the early days of her First Ladyship, when she was taken from the warmth of the Arkansas Gubernatorial home to Washington D.C. She was young, fresh, smart and above all a role model for the working woman. Overtime, there were marks on her resume that seemed to outsiders that she was letting things pass that no woman in her right mind would, and those things translated into a hardened capacity to get what she wanted…and less a reason for her to remain ‘following’.
Sue explained that when Clinton moved to NY Senate, and the subsequent presidential rumor mill roared to life, she thought she would run against GW in 04. When she didn’t she thought now that’s odd. Why wouldn’t she run then…Well one thing led to another and Clinton’s rumor mill roared to life a second time, this time there was money, lot’s and lot’s of money backing a sure fit into the presidentical nomination. Two years ago Sue went to work for a private company who did outside contract work for Big Pharm Companies like Pfizer and Merk. She invested in Clinton’s campaign and heavily backed her efforts.
Enter Barack Obama.
Sue initially liked Obama in a sense of “how sweet, the junior Senator from Illinois is going to run against HRC.”
Now when Barack began to make some money, and earned a few endorsements, Sue began to take a second look. She noticed there was an inconsistency in Clinton’s camp that was begining to show it’s ugly head. her numbers were leveling out, and Obama’s were rising…Rising! FF to Iowa and Obama’s Big #1 win. Shocked, Sue was puzzled at what could possibly have happened. Looking deeper into the mess she turned again to Clinton’s Camp. What’s going on…why are Clinton’s numbers begining to slip and Obama’s begining to rise.
Sue told me she had a revelation that Clinton was playing from an outdated playbook. One where her husband and their close friends thought it was a recipe for success. Well as we have seen it has been anything but a recipe for Success.
I am sitting listening wondering why Sue is talking to me so candidly when only a few short weeks ago she wouldn’t even come over for dinner because of the Obama signs on our front lawn. Silly I know. But what she began to see was Clinton getting away from who she was back when she was a fresh face coming out of Arkansas entering Washinton. She wasn’t paying attention to that woman, the one with orginality, with true grit.
Sue went on and elaborated on what she felt went wrong with Clinton’s campaign, and she mentions she doesn’t think it had much to do with Clinton at all, that the staffers, and old friends were failing to allow Hillary to reach back in her past and really bring out the old Hillary…
Back to Obama. Sue said she did not see Obama’s speech, I had mentioned she watch it last week, and she said she’d see it eventually. Aparently she watched it on YouTube last evening - to make sure we had a talking point today. I noticed Sue was being quite nice to me today, not snarking over the Obama laden car, or my Obama chatter…I asked after we began talking if she saw it. And she said, what I saw, blew me away, what I saw was more than likely our next POTUS.
Shocked I pressed her as to why she thought that. And she said that Obama is Clinton when she left Arkansas - at the top of his game, young, fresh ideas, and smart enough to take on Washington and get off his laurels. Clever enough to update the old play book to a new leather-bound premium edition.
I don’y know why I am telling you any of this, I’m not in the business of changing peoples minds about who they should or shouldn’t vote for but I will tell you this. Sue is a part of Clinton’s base. A part of Clinton’s core group who support her through and through and she is admiting that Obama has a chance, and now is the time for him to act. She doesn’t consider Clinton viable anymore as a POTUS, not because she couldn’t do the job, but because she believes Clinton ran into the headlights and forgot to blink and move on…she stayed there and ultimately didn’t break in the direction of what [Sue believes] is her inner child, her inner gusto.
Again, just an anecdote, paraphrased from a conversation from within the inner sanctum of a Clinton household. Sue didn’t vote Obama, but she will in November - based in no small part to his candor and ability to talk toe to toe. Is she still a Clintonite? Of course…but does she think she will ultimately pull it off? No.
Elvis - it’s not over until she sings…but she may be in the green room preparing her voice. Who knows right?
Clearly, I don’t view the two as being mutually exclusive.
Further, while it’s all well and good for us to be proud of our president, it’s even more important that he/she do a good job. My view is that McCain may very well accomplish both. Obama, if he’s elected, would likely make us proud. I’m not convinced he’d do a good job, but he might. And, while I may feel he’s a fine fellow, he and I are not exactly simpatico politically.
That leaves HRC. How anyone could feel that Hillary Clinton (or is Rodham in there this week?) would make America proud is anyone’s guess. The woman is a veritable cornucopia of dishonest and negative character traits.
So let me see if I understand the scenario that you believe leads to Hillary nomination at this point:
The American public is so shaken up by Obama’s insistence that there is more to Wright, that there is positive to Wright as well, so sure that Obama must actually be a White hating anti-American Black Panther in his heart, that he loses PA by 30 points and loses NC and the rest too. The supers all become convinced that he cannot win based on that and go with Hillary. She wins and takes the usual blues plus one.
Yes?
Thank you. Honestly, it’s like pulling teeth to get you to participate.
I did a quick search and found that there were donors lined up which is something I hadn’t known before (and I apologize for my own ignorance), though the funding was a question as the bill called for the donors to reimburse the state as opposed to simply forking it over. Cite here. The remaining objections were over democrats who had voted republican in the primary since their vote on the democrat side wouldn’t count, the legal issues regarding a privately funded primary, and workload on county clerks. Here and here
As I said earlier, I am disappointed in Obama for not backing the bill. I understand his objections, but I disagree with them. State rules say you can only vote on one party ballot in the primary. It’s your own fault if you picked republican. The idea of a privately funded primary, particularly from Clinton donors (and yes, I’d feel the same way if it were Obama funded) bothers me a little, but is outweighed by my desire to have my vote heard. I also disagree with the Obama campaigns idea that the delegates should be split down the middle. That’s just as unfair to the voters as the other options (not seating the delegates or letting the vote stand). Better to leave the delegates unseated.
I don’t think we’ll see any riots. Disaffected voters becoming jaded about the political process? That we could see a lot of. Obama supporters getting car flippin violent? I’d be surprised if anyone takes their politics that personally anymore.
Ah, GD debate at its finest. :rolleyes:
No.
Stratocaster - that’s a very clear and fair response. I’ll probably have time to get more specific in the morning, but I think I agree with you for the most part.
Nonsense. Complete poppycock. It’s nice as an opinion and all, but it hardly proves there’s any responsibility on his part, even, as you say, “as a leader”, to make a big stink about counting votes that were disqualified before they were even cast. That’s just ABSURD!
What leaders do, is know when to take a stand and when to stand down. Good leaders in the Federal government also know when it’s incumbent upon them to allow individual states to exert their own authority as it pertains to their own citizenry. He knows this, in part, because he is the only candidate who has ever had state legislative experience!
And he’s not obliged “as a leader” to acquiesce to any quackery they throw out there just for appearances sake. He has an obligation to his own supporters, not to squander their hard work and funding on pipe dreams filled with untenable and inequitable solutions that may only serve to hurt him in the long run.
Sorry, but the facts remain; Barack Obama did not create this mess and he’s under no obligation to try to fix it, either, much as you and Hillary might stamp your feet and wish it were so.
Well put, Shayna!!!
I think you are completely wrong.
First, I think that white America needs to face the anger that Reverand Wright expressed. If you honestly think that he just one angry guy you are really really not paying attention.
Second, and this is anecdotal, but my students, who pretty much know nothing else about politics (I’m trying, I really am) know about the guy running for president who is black. They have heard it from their parents, who also have never been much involved in politics. There is something brewing in the comunity. I think it feels like pride but there is danger to it too.
If it is perceived that Obama had the election stolen we will see riots like havent been seen since 68. These are not people who would be counted as Obama faithful, and may even have voted for Hillary in the primary. The party may not recover.
Okay ElvisL1ves
Since you asked, here’s how Obama wins…
Loses PA by less than 10, wins NC by 10ish, wins IN by 5ish, loses WV by 5-10ish, loses KY by another 5-10ish wins Oregon by 15-20ish and finally ends June with a delegate lead of around 120 or more. This is not counting any superdelegates going along. Hillary has to convince the remaining superdelegates to break her way at a rate of 3 to 4 while Obama only needs half. If he ever has to make his case (which he won’t) it will be this:
I won more states. I won more delegates, I won more votes (at least 500k)
The superdelgates will obviously give it to him because there is no objective reason to choose Hillary. The only possible reason to choose Hillary at this point will be because of “electability” or some such nonsense.
I think that is all pretty obvious. Again, if you’re so secure in your position, buy up some intrade contracts. I can’t remember if I’m on the record for this but I own Obama contracts. I bought them months ago. I’ve been very happy. Buy Hillary contracts if you’re so secure in her chances. Maybe you could give us an idea?
You can’t keep ignoring my request for you to explain how Hilary wins. The longer you avoid this, the less water your argument holds.
This morning on GMA Diane Sawyer asked the GMA political correspondent point blank how could Hillary win…and he grumbled, fumbled and foibled and it basically amounted to “she can’t” because any wins she gets will be marred by his current lead, and him keeping it close in some and winning outright a few more.
No, he didn’t create this mess, and no, he’s under no obligation to fix it. However, that’s a short-sighted strategy.
Let’s assume Obama wins the Democratic primary. I’m reasonably comfortable with that assumption, and I infer you are also. So what happens in the fall? In the fall, John McCain runs ads in Michigan and Florida that say, “Barack Obama doesn’t want your vote. He didn’t want it last March; why give it to him in November? Vote for John McCain, who’s always listened to the people of Michigan/Florida.”
Remember Florida went Republican in 2004, and Michigan only barely Democratic. It wouldn’t take a ton of voters (either actually swayed by the above argument, or just disillusioned enough to stay home) to make both states Republican in 2008.
What good does it do for Obama to win the nomination if he loses the general election? He’s got a few months to sort this all out, and I certainly hope he’ll be able to say, “I fought to make sure Florida and Michigan were heard.” But right now, not so much.
If we get a President McCain because Florida and Michigan go Republican, I’ll be royally pissed.
I don’t see that as a terribly compelling argument. By November, the economy is going to dominate the issues the voters will be deciding on, and Obama is going to appeal to them because of his populist stance, and because he wisely avoided having his picture taken with George Bush. I just don’t see McCain getting a lot of traction in those states by reminding voters of the primary 6 months prior.
Or having the Dem ads played over, and over, and over where McCain plainly states, “Economic isn’t my strongsuit”… Greaaaat! We want him running the country.
That’s silly. People care a whole lot less about their state’s delegates being seated than a lot of people think.
I’m talking race riots here. Perhaps you’ve never seen one.
I don’t expect it myself, but the potential would be there.