Well, in Florida’s defense, they’re Florida. The love screwing up elections. :smack:
In Florida they were telling people to get out and vote. My brother an Obama man went to the polls. But he said a lot of his friends and collegues did not.
It will end up going as originally expected - Florida and Michigan will have their delegations seated. Obama will request it once Hillary concedes. There is a benefit to having them seated and giving them a chance to save a little face but it can only be after it no longer matters. That’s one of the reasons that Hillary will be pressured to concede well before the convention.
Indeed.
And btw Marley23, congratulations from me also on your new modship.
I don’t know why you guys wanna take on the headaches, but the place is better off as a result. Thanks.
In fact, someone did sue. And just today a Florida court threw the suit out due to lack of standing.
Court Throws Out Florida Lawsuit
The complaintant says he’s planning to continue trying to appeal all the way to the Supreme Court. Good luck with that.
Change of subject: I wonder if the MSM will run videos of Hillary lying about her Bosnia trip (this one contains the lie, as well as the actual landing footage) over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over ad nauseam like they did with the out of context sermons of Reverend Wright. HA!
I suppose it’s easy to forget that this isn’t the real election, it’s just a nationwide club choosing a champion. The DNC could decide to have their candidate chosen out of a hat by the second oldest woman in Bumfuck Indiana if they so desired.
No, what you snipped was a long Jeremiah Wright quotation. Those were his words, and he did not attribute them to Peck. According to these transcripts on a self-described Web site with a pro-Obama slant, Peck said Osama bin Ladin and Saddam Hussein both had reasons to dislike America. Peck did not quote Malcolm X (the source of “America’s chickens have come to roost,” as rightfully acknowledged by Wright), nor did he launch into a diatribe against the United States.
Yes! Let’s *keep * the people of Florida and Michigan from being heard!
Yeah, Obama!
:rolleyes:
While I agree with the sentiment (kinda), you’re still placing all of the blame with the wrong person. For starters, the governments of Michigan and Florida made their own beds well before Obama was a factor. Secondly, the legislature in Michigan had the chance to pass this before they went to break. Obama supporters were a factor, but so was the cost. Michigan isn’t exactly flush with cash and we pissed away a bunch of it on our little pretend primary. Nobody had figured out a good way to pay for the second.
I think Obama could’ve made a difference had he decided to endorse the primary, but there was a lot more going on than just that.
Probably a cheaper, better method, truth be told! 
Thanks Harborwolf. That’s right.
I wouldn’t go quite that far, but they do seem to be comfortable with the idea of the teleological suspension of the ethical (that’s philosopherese for “the end justifies the means”).
Friday night Olbermann quoted something posted on some political website (his show transcript isn’t up yet so I can’t directly reference the item) that rather forcefully argued that Clinton is truly and positively forked. It added one argument I hadn’t heard yet; and if the remaining superdelegates hear it there will be no way they can break for her. Here it is: it would be simply unthinkable for a black candidate to pick up the most committed delegates and a plurality of the votes cast in the primaries and caucuses, and then be denied the nomination. Well geez, if you spin it that way . . .
(If I get back here later today I’ll try to find the original; it was damned powerful.)
I think, from reading the papers, that the sole reason the dispute wasn’t resolved was that the Obamites and the Clintonites couldn’t agree on what to do. Not surprising, since the last thing Obama needs is a whittling away of his pledged delegate lead through the running of a true Michigan primary. Not that it should really matter, but imagine the resulting spin.
I have no sympathy for Michigan and Florida. They asked for it, they got it, it just wasn’t a Toyota.
In Florida, at least, the “they” who “asked for it” was the Republican-controlled legislature, over the objections of the state DP. In neither state was “they” the actual people.
As long as we’re being clear about our terms, that is. We are, aren’t we?
Right, so you see all the onus isn’t soly on Obama’s shoulders.
I agree.
Never said it was. Only part of it is. It is, however, an opportunity for either candidate or party top officials, either party that is, to exercise that “leadership” stuff we keep hearing about.
Who do *you * include in “they”, then?
It was a reason, but not the sole one. As I understand it, the Clinton camp wanted to simply hold another primary and let those who voted in the democratic primary, or didn’t vote at all, vote in it. A concern with the Obama camp was about democratic voters who, knowing their vote wouldn’t count anyways but still wanting to vote, voted in the republican. I can see the point of this, but I don’t agree with it.
The biggest concern coming from the state itself, independent of either political side, was cost. We pissed away (iirc) around ten million dollars that we really didn’t have to begin with on trying to show the DNC who was the boss. Oops. Certainly another primary was preferable, but where would the money for the second come from? There were ideas of the DNC paying for it, or private citizens donating money for it, but nothing really ever came of it. The state would likely have to foot the bill. That was likely the biggest sticking point.
Neither do I. Soonest chance I get, I’m voting out every incumbent bum that I can.
Agreed about the people, but I thought it was both parties in Florida. I’d honestly welcome the correction. I’d heard before that it was just the republicans, but thought the dems were involved as well.
You never said it was anyone else though.
Unless I missed the blame being shared somewhere. Maybe in small size buried behind the rolleyes smiley. If there’s any misunderstanding about what your intent was, it’s on you for not being more clear.
Michigan is so lacking in leadership I dont know as we’d recognize it if we saw it. At this point, leadership wouldn’t do much to get us free of the primary mess. The only thing that would’ve fixed Michigan would’ve been a magic genie with a giant check.
Oh I think the “they” are both parties in the legislature. It’s a tough scenerio as the states of MI and FL knew moving their primaries up would disqualify the votes. But I have a hard time understanding why they would think it would ultimately be overturned or that there would be a big "Just Kidding" from the DNC about the consequences…Seems rather obtuse of both legislatures to think this way. And if they were to overturn it now, and simply seat as is, if would flaw the system even further for decades to come. I agree with the rulings, oddly, I’d agree if I were a Clintonite as well. Who I am voting for has no bearing on what I feel about the process.
As shown by the near unanimous voting record of the state Democrats. In three sessions of being bounced between the state house/senate, it only ever picked up 3 “nay” votes.
The “objections” line is a good one to throw around after the fact but the vote records in the state legislature don’t back it up. And that’s the only place where an objection really mattered.