# Fork Hillary - The Wooden Stake **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 5, 2008, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862 "2008-06-05T11:06:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/1 "2008-06-05T11:06:57Z")
Being less informed than we, our noble GD mod closed our Hillary thread. The reason? There was an AP stub report that she was quitting on Friday. šŸ˜ƒ We can forgive our good friend, Tom, for not knowing the ways of the Hillary Machine and its dunce, the mainstream press. The brief report Tom linked said she would quit Friday. Later reports then said that she had postponed until Saturday, in order to give her supporters enough time to gather. Than later, according to CNN, we learned that Friday would be private time with her supporters and Saturday was to be only ā€œthe first step in a multi-part processā€. ā˜¹ For debate, a number of items: How long will it take her to stop running? Will she actually quit, or just suspend her campaign, holding onto her delegates? How enthusiastic will her support for Obama be, if it ever comes? How many parts will there be to her process, and why does it need to be dragged out further? Will all this rather bizarre behavior hurt her ongoing career and standing in the party? My position is that she will never stop. She will hoard her pledged delegates, although all her supers will have moved to Obama. (DemConWatch has had enough, and will no longer be updating their supers table.) She will give Obama half-hearted support, and the other two family members ā€” so critical to her campaigns ā€” will do essentially nothing. And I believe it has already hurt her reputation among her peers. Charlie Rangel, perhaps her strongest supporter, was simply beside himself yesterday with befuddlement and irritation. Twenty-three Congress critters (all supporters) called her in an intervention-like conference call, begging her to let it go. And saddest of all, perhaps, her own staff called the Senate and pleaded that they get in touch with her and see if they could reason with her. Eight Senators responded. So, thatā€™s my take. Hillary drags this out as long as possible. Agree or disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/2 "2008-06-05T11:22:51Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Being less informed than we, our noble GD mod closed our Hillary thread. The reason? There was an AP stub report that she was quitting on Friday. šŸ˜ƒ We can forgive our good friend, Tom, for not knowing the ways of the Hillary Machine and its dunce, the mainstream press. The brief report Tom linked said she would quit Friday. Later reports then said that she had postponed until Saturday, in order to give her supporters enough time to gather. Than later, according to CNN, we learned that Friday would be private time with her supporters and Saturday was to be only ā€œthe first step in a multi-part processā€. ā˜¹ [/quote] Iā€™d like to say Iā€™m surprised. Iā€™d like to, but really, I canā€™t. [/quote] For debate, a number of items: How long will it take her to stop running? Will she actually quit, or just suspend her campaign, holding onto her delegates? How enthusiastic will her support for Obama be, if it ever comes? How many parts will there be to her process, and why does it need to be dragged out further? Will all this rather bizarre behavior hurt her ongoing career and standing in the party? [/quote] Iā€™d like her to stop, but if she was actually going to I think she would have by now. I donā€™t fully understand whats to be gained by here continuing on now. > [@](#): > > My position is that she will never stop. She will hoard her pledged delegates, although all her supers will have moved to Obama. (DemConWatch has had enough, and will no longer be updating their supers table.) She will give Obama half-hearted support, and the other two family members ā€” so critical to her campaigns ā€” will do essentially nothing. Seriously, what can be gained by this action? Is she doing it just to piss Obama off? Does she think that the nomination will just be yanked from Obama and given to her? > [@](#): > > And I believe it has already hurt her reputation among her peers. Charlie Rangel, perhaps her strongest supporter, was simply beside himself yesterday with befuddlement and irritation. Twenty-three Congress critters (all supporters) called her in an intervention-like conference call, begging her to let it go. And saddest of all, perhaps, her own staff called the Senate and pleaded that they get in touch with her and see if they could reason with her. Eight Senators responded. Ok, what I want now is for the talking heads to stop dancing around the subject and just come out and publicly say itā€¦sheā€™s delusional. Sheā€™s vindictive. Sheā€™s in this for her own ego, not the good of the Country. I think thats a fair assessment. > [@](#): > > So, thatā€™s my take. Hillary drags this out as long as possible. Agree or disagree Unfortunately, methinks youā€™re right. ā˜¹ ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/3 "2008-06-05T11:23:00Z")
I despise the witch as much as anyone, but sheā€™ll come around. I think sheā€™s been through the the denial and anger stages and is into bargaining mode. Sheā€™ll have to put on the happy face and do the endorsement Saturday before finishing up the depression and acceptance phases. You have to remember, she has wanted this gig for at least two decades and has planned it probably since 1992. You donā€™t give up your biggest dreams so easily. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/4 "2008-06-05T11:25:24Z")
Looks like sheā€™s going to claw, bitch, pout, sulk and threaten her way onto the ticket figuring, as she has already indicated her thought processes are running, that itā€™ll be a short wait until Obama gets iced. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/5 "2008-06-05T11:41:05Z")
Donā€™t forget, every four years Friends in WEashington sling shit at eachother. Then after the shit they make nice and continue on. Clinton has given us no reaosn to think she will make nice in the ways people would like her to. Like sheā€™s holding onto a long gone dreamā€¦ The part of me that feels genuingely bad for her is offset by some of the things she says and does. Things I would have hoped would never have been said from one democrat to another. She has made gaffe after gaffe in terms of alienating her closest friends. This is going tobe a tough road for Clinton. Weā€™ll see where she takes it. She wonā€™t even be offered the vp slot. And not only that I donā€™t think we will hear about it, I think we will hear Clinton speak to her constituency to back Obama and to really unite behind him. I know one thing: She better be convincingā€¦very, very convincing in her backing of Obama. Her supporters need to see a shepherd, not a mutineer. And **Tagos** Iā€™m not sure what you mean by _iced_. ---
**Author:** ![3acresandatruck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/e79b87/32.png) [@3acresandatruck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3acresandatruck)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/6 "2008-06-05T11:44:53Z")
October 1, 2011 SNL Weekend Update: (throat clearing) Hi, Iā€™m Chevy Chase, and youā€™re not. Today Hillary Clinton announced that she would begin her campaign for the 2012 Democratic Presidential nomination, using the delegates she has retained since her attempt to win the 2008 Democratic Presidential nominationā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/7 "2008-06-05T11:47:51Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] I despise the witch as much as anyone, but sheā€™ll come around. I think sheā€™s been through the the denial and anger stages and is into bargaining mode. Sheā€™ll have to put on the happy face and do the endorsement Saturday before finishing up the depression and acceptance phases. You have to remember, she has wanted this gig for at least two decades and has planned it probably since 1992. You donā€™t give up your biggest dreams so easily. [/QUOTE] On the Daily Show last night they showed a montage of the pundits saying she was a shoe in and pretty much had the nomination in the bag. I loved the one with Joe Scarborough saying she would crush Barack. Iā€™m sure the whole thing has felt a little unreal to her. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/8 "2008-06-05T11:51:52Z")
[QUOTE=cosmosdan] Iā€™m sure the whole thing has felt a little unreal to her. [/QUOTE] Unreal? Think finally bringing down Godzilla. She came crashing through the wilderness guns blazā€™in shouting and carrying on. Too bad she only brought 2 guns with herā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/9 "2008-06-05T11:53:37Z")
[QUOTE=Jolly Roger] Ok, what I want now is for the talking heads to stop dancing around the subject and just come out and publicly say itā€¦sheā€™s delusional. Sheā€™s vindictive. Sheā€™s in this for her own ego, not the good of the Country. I think thats a fair assessment. [/QUOTE] The talking heads (especially on CNN) are pretty obsequious. But op-eds in hard print this morning are pretty scathing. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/10 "2008-06-05T12:31:03Z")
I, for one, welcome our 6th, and possibly final, Fork Hillary thread. šŸ™‚ I suspect Hillaryā€™s comments on Saturday will leave a sliver of light coming through the door as hope for her supporters. Sheā€™ll use the word ā€˜suspendā€™ and make it clear that she hasnā€™t given up, but that she has to now concentrate all her vast and incomparable efforts to defeating McCain in November. Sheā€™ll word it so itā€™s more Hillary and Barack working together as a team than her supporting him. Sheā€™ll endorse Barack, but tie her pedestal to his in her praise. To all that I sayā€¦whatever. Iā€™m okay with it all, as long as by the end of the day sheā€™s no longer a threat to him, is holding nothing over him, and encourages her supporters and commands her flying monkeys to support him. Iā€™ve learned, however, never to hold my breath with Hillary, so weā€™ll see. It should be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/11 "2008-06-05T12:33:26Z")
Here is the text of her latest email to her constituents. Aparently it went out to everyone who donatedā€¦Itā€™s not bad I must admit. > [@](#): > > I wanted you to be one of the first to know: on Saturday, I will hold an event in Washington D.C. to thank everyone who has supported my campaign. Over the course of the last 16 months, I have been privileged and touched to witness the incredible dedication and sacrifice of so many people working for our campaign. Every minute you put into helping us win, every dollar you gave to keep up the fight meant more to me than I can ever possibly tell you. > On Saturday, I will extend my congratulations to Senator Obama and my support for his candidacy. This has been a long and hard-fought campaign, but as I have always said, my differences with Senator Obama are small compared to the differences we have with Senator McCain and the Republicans. > I have said throughout the campaign that I would strongly support Senator Obama if he were the Democratic Partyā€™s nominee, and I intend to deliver on that promise. > When I decided to run for president, I knew exactly why I was getting into this race: to work hard every day for the millions of Americans who need a voice in the White House. > I made you ā€“ and everyone who supported me ā€“ a promise: to stand up for our shared values and to never back down. Iā€™m going to keep that promise today, tomorrow, and for the rest of my life. > I will be speaking on Saturday about how together we can rally the party behind Senator Obama. The stakes are too high and the task before us too important to do otherwise. > I know as I continue my lifelong work for a stronger America and a better world, I will turn to you for the support, the strength, and the commitment that you have shown me in the past 16 months. And I will always keep faith with the issues and causes that are important to you. > In the past few days, you have shown that support once again with hundreds of thousands of messages to the campaign, and again, I am touched by your thoughtfulness and kindness. > I can never possibly express my gratitude, so let me say simply, thank you. > Sincerely, > Hillary \*\*Phlosphr \*\* - caustiously optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/12 "2008-06-05T12:38:43Z")
Thatā€™s mostly all about her, isnā€™t it? And oh, by the way, Obama isnā€™t as bad as McCain. If her speech is like that, sheā€™ll still be casting a pall over everything. She needs to spell out exactly why Obama is **THE BEST CHOICE** for the Democratic party and America. Her speech needs to be about him, not her. ā€¦ I wonā€™t hold my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/13 "2008-06-05T12:42:27Z")
The more I look at her statement, the worse it gets. She says that she will support Obama because she feels obligated by a promise she made. Thereā€™s no gladness in it. No reason to support him other than she said she would and heā€™s not a Republican. And most important of all ā€” _no appeal to her people that they should support him too_! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/14 "2008-06-05T12:43:54Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] For debate, a number of items: How long will it take her to stop running? [/quote] She already did. Exhale: itā€™s over. > [@](#): > > Will she actually quit, or just suspend her campaign, holding onto her delegates? I read somewhere that if she suspends her campaign instead of quitting, she is allowed to keep raising money. Since sheā€™s racked up a lot of debt, that may be a necessity even if she knows itā€™s over. > [@](#): > > How enthusiastic will her support for Obama be, if it ever comes? Iā€™m not expecting very much. Who knows, maybe he can drag a little support out of her/them. > [@](#): > > How many parts will there be to her process, and why does it need to be dragged out further? Itā€™s probably being dragged out because of the money. > [@](#): > > Will all this rather bizarre behavior hurt her ongoing career and standing in the party? If she comes back to work and does her thing - especially if Obama wins - I think her colleagues will get over it pretty quickly. They may have lost a little respect for her personally, but if she does what sheā€™s supposed to, they can forgive just about anything. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/15 "2008-06-05T12:45:36Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Thatā€™s mostly all about her, isnā€™t it? And oh, by the way, Obama isnā€™t as bad as McCain. If her speech is like that, sheā€™ll still be casting a pall over everything. She needs to spell out exactly why Obama is **THE BEST CHOICE** for the Democratic party and America. Her speech needs to be about him, not her. ā€¦ I wonā€™t hold my breath. [/QUOTE] Neither will I. She needs to play shepherd now for Obama, I really hope she can find it in herself to do just that. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/16 "2008-06-05T13:07:58Z")
> [@Hillary Clinton](#): > > I will be speaking on Saturday about how together we can rally the party behind Senator Obama. The stakes are too high and the task before us too important to do otherwise. I think we can unfork Hillary now. Or at least stop forking her any further. If sheā€™d made an ass of herself and kept on fighting, the world would have just passed her by. It wouldnā€™t have hurt anyone but her. So it wouldnā€™t have mattered anyway. But sheā€™s thrown in the towel, and sheā€™s throwing her support behind Obama. Itā€™s over. Letā€™s all take a deep breath and relax. ETA: I think **tomndebb** made a good decision in closing the Fork Hillary 3 thread. And I canā€™t really see any debate here, other than perhaps, ā€œIs Hillaryā€™s campaign _really_ dead, or is she just faking it?ā€ which seems to have only speculation behind the latter possibility - not that it would matter if it turned out to be true. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/17 "2008-06-05T13:13:22Z")
She said she was conceding and will do so formally on Saturday. I donā€™t understand why some feel itā€™s necessary to insist she wonā€™t do just that. I can understand why she wants to have one last talk with her supporters before she quits, and that she canā€™t just do that on a momentā€™s notice. Give it a rest, guys. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/18 "2008-06-05T13:14:15Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] The more I look at her statement, the worse it gets. She says that she will support Obama because she feels obligated by a promise she made. Thereā€™s no gladness in it. No reason to support him other than she said she would and heā€™s not a Republican. And most important of all ā€” _no appeal to her people that they should support him too_! [/QUOTE] Thatā€™s the key ingredient I think is missing. She says she will deliver on her promise. Itā€™s even fine if she thinks she is still the better candidate as long as she fully supports Obama as the candidate of her party. She needs to tell her supporters that they need to realize whatā€™s at stake and urge them to support Obama as much as they supported her, \*for the good of the country \*. If she doesnā€™t say that on Saturday Iā€™ll cast off my hope for her to rise above her ego. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/19 "2008-06-05T13:25:03Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] I think we can unfork Hillary now. Or at least stop forking her any further. . [/QUOTE] I keep seeing the devil from that scene in Animal House saying ā€œFork Her! fork her brains out!ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862/20 "2008-06-05T13:25:30Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] She said she was conceding and will do so formally on Saturday. I donā€™t understand why some feel itā€™s necessary to insist she wonā€™t do just that. I can understand why she wants to have one last talk with her supporters before she quits, and that she canā€™t just do that on a momentā€™s notice. Give it a rest, guys. [/QUOTE] Due respect, but no one is forcing your participation. Weā€™re talking about a person who stepped on an historic moment ā€” the first African-American presidential candidate ā€” deliberately ignoring reality and stumping EVEN AFTER HE WON. Her promises are worthless. Until and unless she releases her delegates, Obama will always have to look back over his shoulder. My own opinion is that, if anything, sheā€™ll self-destruct as she continues to look for ways to wrestle this away from him. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-the-wooden-stake/451862.md?page=2)