# "Forking Out" for Things

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [July 2, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115 "2008-07-02T23:02:29Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 13\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![bubastis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bubastis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bubastis)\
**Post date:** [July 2, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115/1 "2008-07-02T23:02:29Z")

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Today I forked out for my motor tax. I’m thinking about forking out for that James Bond DVD set. But why “Forking”? How does Forking Out = Paying/ Spending Money?

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**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\
**Post date:** [July 2, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115/2 "2008-07-02T23:28:11Z")

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[This site](http://www.broca.org/phrases.html) claims:

> [@](#):
>
> _Fork out or up - pay, contribute (money)_  
> In slang, from the late 17th century, the ‘forks’ were the forefinger and middle finger and the verb ‘to fork’ was to pickpocket, especially by inserting the two ‘forks’ into a victim’s pocket. In standard English a fork is, among other things, a bifurcation, v-shape or division into two branches, and it is easy to see why this came to be applied to the first two fingers of the hand. To fork out (now colloquial rather than slang) developed naturally from the basic idea of fingering money and bringing it out of a pocket.

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**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\
**Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115/3 "2008-07-03T00:10:38Z")

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To “fork” something is indeed known from the underworld from the very late 1600’s.

It meant to pick the pocket, using two fingers.

But, the expression “fork up/out/over” to hand over money is only found in the early 1800’s.

Thus endeth the lesson.

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**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\
**Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115/4 "2008-07-03T02:45:57Z")

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The explanation can be found in my favourite history book.

\<\< Henry VII was a miser and very good at statecraft; he invented some extremely clever policies such as the one called Morton’s Fork. This was an enormous prong with which his minister Morton visited the rich citizens (or burghlers as they were called). If the citizen said he was poor, Morton drove his Fork in a certain distance and promised not to take it out until the citizen paid a large sum of money to the King. As soon as this was forthcoming Morton dismissed him, at the same time shouting ‘Fork Out’ so that Henry would know the statecraft had been successful. If the burghler said he was quite rich Morton did the same thing: it was thus a very clever policy and always succeeded except when Morton put the Fork in too far. \>\>

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**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\
**Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115/5 "2008-07-03T03:09:56Z")

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[QUOTE=Peter Morris]  
The explanation can be found in my favourite history book.

\<\< Henry VII was a miser and very good at statecraft; he invented some extremely clever policies such as the one called Morton’s Fork. This was an enormous prong with which his minister Morton visited the rich citizens (or burghlers as they were called). If the citizen said he was poor, Morton drove his Fork in a certain distance and promised not to take it out until the citizen paid a large sum of money to the King. As soon as this was forthcoming Morton dismissed him, at the same time shouting ‘Fork Out’ so that Henry would know the statecraft had been successful. If the burghler said he was quite rich Morton did the same thing: it was thus a very clever policy and always succeeded except when Morton put the Fork in too far. \>\>  
[/QUOTE]  
Sorry to call your favorite history book into question, but this just screams “made-up etymology” to me. I suspect whoever wrote that was fabricating it, or had been fooled by hearing someone else’s fabrication. You’ll note that [the accepted meaning of “Morton’s ForK”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton's_Fork) has to do with a two-pronged line of reasoning, with not so much as the slightest allusion to actually stabbing someone with a fork.

When I hear “fork it over,” I think of someone dispensing stuff with a pitchfork.

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**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\
**Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115/6 "2008-07-03T03:34:13Z")

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[QUOTE=Gary T]  
Sorry to call your favorite history book into question, but this just screams “made-up etymology” to me. I suspect whoever wrote that was fabricating it, or had been fooled by hearing someone else’s fabrication.  
[/QUOTE]  
Congratulations. You have been royally, magnificently, historically, and satirically whooshed. You have been whooshed as few before have ever been. You have been so whooshed you could go on Jerry Springer, Letterman, Oprah, and guest on Days of Our Lives. You are a whoosee’s whoosee.

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**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\
**Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115/7 "2008-07-03T03:38:27Z")

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[QUOTE=Askance]  
You have been so whooshed you could go on Jerry Springer, Letterman, Oprah, and guest on Days of Our Lives.  
[/QUOTE]  
Really? That would be cool - I’ve never been on a national TV show before.

I hope the other one gets pulled next time. It has bells and streamers and such.

:smack:

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**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\
**Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115/8 "2008-07-03T15:09:23Z")

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I don’t have any cites for any of this but it seems a straightforward appropriation of the idea of serving meat from a platter with a fork.

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**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\
**Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115/9 "2008-07-03T16:01:11Z")

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I’ve always assumed it comes from using a pitchfork. Farmers “fork out” hay and other foods to their animals.

ETA: As Gary T said, which I missed earlier because of the massive whooshing sound.

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**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\
**Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115/10 "2008-07-04T04:27:15Z")

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[QUOTE=Gary T]  
Really? That would be cool - I’ve never been on a national TV show before.

I hope the other one gets pulled next time. It has bells and streamers and such.

:smack:  
[/QUOTE]  
[Just so you know the whenceness of the whooshing sound](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_and_All_That)

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**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\
**Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115/11 "2008-07-04T13:26:11Z")

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[QUOTE=samclem]  
To “fork” something is indeed known from the underworld from the very late 1600’s.

It meant to pick the pocket, using two fingers.

But, the expression “fork up/out/over” to hand over money is only found in the early 1800’s.

Thus endeth the lesson.  
[/QUOTE]

So, Samuel, are you saying that the connection between the two is unclear, and may not actually exist?

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**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\
**Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115/12 "2008-07-04T15:41:29Z")

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[QUOTE=Askance]  
[Just so you know the whenceness of the whooshing sound](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_and_All_That)  
[/QUOTE]  
Thanks for that info. I’d heard of the book by title, but never read it. Serves me right, I guess. :o

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**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\
**Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forking-out-for-things/455115/13 "2008-07-04T19:51:33Z")

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[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq]  
So, Samuel, are you saying that the connection between the two is unclear, and may not actually exist?  
[/QUOTE]

> [@](#):
>
> Originally Posted by samclem  
> To “fork” something is indeed known from the underworld from the very late 1600’s.
> 
> It meant to pick the pocket, using two fingers.
> 
> But, the expression “fork up/out/over” to hand over money is only found in the early 1800’s.
> 
> Thus endeth the lesson.

That wasn’t my intent. I just didn’t want people to think that the original term somehow morphed into the second overnight.