# Former band members erased from history
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [September 30, 2010, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586 "2010-09-30T10:55:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2010, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/41 "2010-10-04T05:55:20Z")
Lana Lane put out a concert dvd a few years back “Storybook: Tales from Europe and Japan” where they completely erased their lead guitarist from the videos. In the liner notes for the DVD, Erik Norlander claims that Guitarist Arjen Lucassen was “unprofessional and unprepared” and was fired from the tour and erased from the dvd. What, specifically, the issue was remains unexplained, but on the dvd all video _and audio_ of Arjen was edited and replaced with a different guitarist (remember, this is live concert footage). It’s really really strange since the video and audio of the new guitarist is obviously produced in a studio and completely stands out from the rest of the band. During wide shots where you could see the whole stage, the side Arjen was on was replaced by shots of the other guitarist playing. Arjen said on his web site something like "I’m not going to comment except to say that it was ‘bullshit’ and “Erik knows the truth”. The whole thing is very bizarre, the video is so disjointed as a result of the edited stuff that it’s nearly unwatchable.
Kind of a reverse situation, Kiss replaced Ace Frehley and Peter Criss on a number of albums with different musicians, and kept them on the credits and pics. They eventually changed the cover of Creatures of the Night to a cover depicting the musicians who actually played on the album (I forget who they were and am too lazy to look it up ).
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### Author:  [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/42 "2010-10-04T05:58:36Z")
> [@Apocalypso](#):
>
> Lana Lane put out a concert dvd a few years back “Storybook: Tales from Europe and Japan” where they completely erased their lead guitarist from the videos. In the liner notes for the DVD, Erik Norlander claims that Guitarist Arjen Lucassen was “unprofessional and unprepared” and was fired from the tour and erased from the dvd. What, specifically, the issue was remains unexplained, but on the dvd all video _and audio_ of Arjen was edited and replaced with a different guitarist (remember, this is live concert footage). It’s really really strange since the video and audio of the new guitarist is obviously produced in a studio and completely stands out from the rest of the band. During wide shots where you could see the whole stage, the side Arjen was on was replaced by shots of the other guitarist playing. Arjen said on his web site something like "I’m not going to comment except to say that it was ‘bullshit’ and “Erik knows the truth”. The whole thing is very bizarre, the video is so disjointed as a result of the edited stuff that it’s nearly unwatchable. They did release another
Wow, now that seems pretty extreme and a lot of work to go to just to get back at someone.
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### Author:  [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2010, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/43 "2010-10-04T06:07:50Z")
Missed the edit window:
Apparently Peter Criss had left Kiss by the time Creatures was released, and Eric Carr was their drummer at the time. However, Peter Criss was featured on the album artwork for Unmasked but didn’t actually play on the album.
The guitarist who actually played on Creatures was Vinny Vincent. However, the re-release of the album cover featured Bruce Kulik (who didn’t actually play on the album), not Vinnie Vincent.
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### Author:  [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2010, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/44 "2010-10-04T06:38:39Z")
Who remembers Signe Anderson, the original vocalist for The Jefferson Airplane? Or Glen Matlock, original bassist for The Sex Pistols?
Fleetwood Mac has more line-ups than Doctor Who, at least until Lindsey and Stevie hooked up with them. The Mothers of Invention had almost as many line-ups as there were Mothers albums, with Frank Zappa being the only constant.
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### Author:  [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2010, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/45 "2010-10-04T06:55:27Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#):
>
> Or Glen Matlock, original bassist for The Sex Pistols?
Matlock was playing bass for them when I saw them in 1976. He was hardly erased though, he has played with the band on all 5 reunion tours that they have done.
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### Author:  [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/46 "2010-10-04T13:29:39Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#):
>
> Fleetwood Mac has more line-ups than Doctor Who, at least until Lindsey and Stevie hooked up with them.
Wait, which Doctors did Lindsey and Stevie hook up with? (Now Captain Jack, I’ll believe).
On topic, I’ll mention, just for completeness sake, Milli Vanilli.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/47 "2010-10-04T14:13:32Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#):
>
> Fleetwood Mac has more line-ups than Doctor Who, at least until Lindsey and Stevie hooked up with them.
Yes, but they don’t ignore the previous members, or pretend that they never existed. Fleetwood Mac still perform “Albatross” and “Hypnotized” in concert.
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/48 "2010-10-04T14:29:33Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#):
>
> The Mothers of Invention had almost as many line-ups as there were Mothers albums, with Frank Zappa being the only constant.
But they don’t pretend otherwise: Zappa credits them and doesn’t pretend they never existed.
Similarly, John Mayall has gone though dozens of different lineups, but he celebrates their success. He’s even had them come back from time to time. Mayall and Zappa are considered like advanced study in music – you play with them to expand your abilities, then go off on your own.
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### Author:  [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/49 "2010-10-04T15:20:19Z")
Queen had several bass players in the (very)early days before John Deacon.
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### Author:  [@The\_Falling\_Reverend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Falling_Reverend)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/50 "2010-10-04T15:55:34Z")
> [@Spiff](#):
>
> The two guitarists who replaced Mick Jones when he was fired from The Clash – Nick Sheppard and Vince White – are rarely mentioned. And the album that the band released post-Jones – Cut the Crap – is also only rarely mentioned.
>
> Also, the drummer who played in the last iteration of the band before Jones was booted – Pete Howard – is also rarely acknowledged.
Mick Jones played guitar and was replaced Sheppard and White, while Topper Headon was the drummer for a majority of The Clash’s career and was fired from the band and temporarily replaced by Terry Chimes, who played drums on their first album but was credited under the name Tory Crimes. (which was supposed to be some big insult to him for leaving the band in the first place)
Pete Howard then replaced Terry Chimes after the US Festival show (which was Mick Jones’ last show with the group) and recorded on Cut The Crap.
Other former members of The Clash were Keith Levene(sp?), who later went onto to play in Public Image Ltd. and Jon Moss who went on to join Culture Club. Although Levene does usually get a mention in the various biographies about the group.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/51 "2010-10-04T19:10:46Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#):
>
> In 1993 John Fogerty refused to play with former CCR bandmates Stu Cook and Doug Clifford over years of fighting, spoiling Tricia Fogerty’s plans when she brought Tom’s ashes to the event expecting a reunion.
I can’t see how Tom would have added much to a reunion, unless they were planning to use his urn in place of maracas.
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### Author:  [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/52 "2010-10-04T23:48:38Z")
> [@WordMan](#):
>
> > [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#):
> >
> > Did he mention Ian Stewart? Hell, the Stones have _current_ members who have been erased from history. Darryl Jones? Who? And Bobby Keys and Chuck Leavell don’t get the recognition they deserve, either.
>
> These are much better examples of Stones excising out players vs. Mick Taylor…
Yes indeed - goodbye [Bill Wyman!](http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=5307024&postcount=40)
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### Author:  [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/53 "2010-10-05T02:50:25Z")
> [@Nobody](#):
>
> > [@Apocalypso](#):
> >
> > Lana Lane put out a concert dvd a few years back “Storybook: Tales from Europe and Japan” where they completely erased their lead guitarist from the videos. In the liner notes for the DVD, Erik Norlander claims that Guitarist Arjen Lucassen was “unprofessional and unprepared” and was fired from the tour and erased from the dvd. What, specifically, the issue was remains unexplained, but on the dvd all video _and audio_ of Arjen was edited and replaced with a different guitarist (remember, this is live concert footage). It’s really really strange since the video and audio of the new guitarist is obviously produced in a studio and completely stands out from the rest of the band. During wide shots where you could see the whole stage, the side Arjen was on was replaced by shots of the other guitarist playing. Arjen said on his web site something like "I’m not going to comment except to say that it was ‘bullshit’ and “Erik knows the truth”. The whole thing is very bizarre, the video is so disjointed as a result of the edited stuff that it’s nearly unwatchable. They did release another
>
> Wow, now that seems pretty extreme and a lot of work to go to just to get back at someone.
What’s odd is Arjen apparently made it the whole way through the tour (no announcements about him being replaced, and no footage of any other guitarist on the tour). If, as Erik claims, the issue was Arjen’s playing and/or his preparedness during the tour, why wasn’t it addressed then? I know it’s not that easy to just call someone else up “hey, we’re in Europe and we’re in a bit of a jam here…”, but if his playing was bad enough that they didn’t want to put it on the dvd, how did he make it the whole way through a tour of two continents? I’ve wondered if it was a money dispute (over compensation from dvd sales?). In any case, without knowing the details, it comes across as petty and childish to erase your guitarist from a concert dvd and replace him with studio audio and video of another guitarist. If your panties are in that much of a bunch, don’t release it at all. It didn’t make me stop listening to either party but Erik and Lana did a disservice to their fans with that dvd.
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### Author:  [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/54 "2010-10-05T03:11:40Z")
> [@Nobody](#):
>
> \*\*
> Example 2\*\*, OK, not quiet the same, but close. The band YES has had quiet a few members come and go. Recently I read talk of Trevor Rabin possibly coming back, but apparently it won’t happen as long as Steve Howe is there. According to [this](http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2211061916&topic=1705)
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > because Steve Howe clearly hates playing Rabin-era Yes, and they seem to exclude all of those songs, excluding the obligatory ‘Owner’ and occasional ‘Rhythm.’
Interesting. Saw a Youtube video of a recent Yes concert where Rabin joined them for Owner. Howe stayed off to the side on his rug, but I’m not sure he ever really leaves it nowadays.
However, when you mention Yes, what comes to my mind is that Jon Anderson absolutely refuses to do anything from the Buggles era of “Drama.” I recall reading that when he got sick and they got a new singer, they were happy to be able to try out some of those songs again.
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### Author:  [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/55 "2010-10-05T03:27:16Z")
That’s kind of funny because Trevor Horn (lead singer during “Drama”) co-produced the next two albums after Jon cam back.
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### Author:  [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/56 "2010-10-05T18:54:04Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#):
>
> Who remembers Signe Anderson.
Anderson made it as far as the first album, where her singing style’s an interesting contrast from Grace Slick. It’s that of a typical early 1960s female folkie, with _lots_ of vibrato on the long notes.
IIRC she was pregnant and decided to leave the band of her own volition.
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### Author:  [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/57 "2010-10-05T18:59:55Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#):
>
> IIRC she was pregnant and decided to leave the band of her own volition.
Collector’s Choice has just released four vintage Airplane concerts on CD, including Signe’s last show and Grace’s first.
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### Author:  [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/58 "2010-10-05T19:04:39Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#):
>
> > [@Leaffan](#):
> >
> > Well, when Paul McCartney died, The Beatles replaced him with an exact duplicate, and didn’t even bother to explain it to anyone.
>
> Well, speaking of The Beatles, not that it’s a direct coverup or anything, but who really remembers Stuart Sutcliffe and Pete Best?
This is the classic example. It does seem that, after they made the big time, everyone in the group and its management were careful not to throw too much light on anything that happened before they joined Parlophone. John, Paul, and George seemed to go out of their way to say how dull-witted a person, and what a lousy drummer, Pete had been–and above all, how he’d never really been a Beatle. OTOH they usually accorded Stu a lot more respect and fondness in their reminiscences, even if his less than stellar bass playing had been frustrating for them.
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### Author:  [@Suil\_Dubh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suil_Dubh)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-band-members-erased-from-history/555586/59 "2010-10-05T23:46:28Z")
Kind of a minor example, but the British heavy metal band **Sabbat** recorded three albums.
From what I can gather, after the second album the band broke up fairly acrimoniously around 1990. The guitarist and drummer decided to carry on by recruiting a new vocalist and bass player. They kept the name of “Sabbat” and recorded the third album in 1991.
Soon after the third album, the band split up again. In 2006 the four original members reformed the band, played several concerts and launched a new website. On the website there’s no mention of either the third album or the two replacement members.
I suppose I can understand their reasons for whitewashing that bit of band history, but it’s kind of a shame, because that third album wasn’t too bad.
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