# Former Iranian Deputy Defense Minister Ali Reza Askari -- defects to U.S.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2007, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335 "2007-03-10T01:25:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2007, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/1 "2007-03-10T01:25:04Z")
[He disappeared in Istanbul 2/7/07.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Reza_Asghari) Some news outlets are reporting he [defected to the U.S.](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,257482,00.html) What would make an Iranian leader defect to the U.S.? Sincere change of heart? $weet offer? Fear of rivals? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/2 "2007-03-10T01:26:17Z")
:smack: Tsk. Mods, please move this to GD. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2007, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/3 "2007-03-10T01:53:47Z")
Done and done. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2007, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/4 "2007-03-10T01:54:01Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [He disappeared in Istanbul 2/7/07.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Reza_Asghari) What would make an Iranian leader defect to the U.S.? Sincere change of heart? $weet offer? Fear of rivals? [/QUOTE] If, upon arrival, he is quoted by the government and their mouthpieces as saying things like “Iran plans on using nukes to attack the U.S.A.”, I’m going to go with “$weet offer”. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2007, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/5 "2007-03-10T02:31:33Z")
Do you “Defect” from Iran? Leaving Iran doesn’t strike me as being something you do in the middle of the night. People seem to leave it freely to move to Canada, that’s for sure. I’ve worked with lots of them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2007, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/6 "2007-03-10T02:37:40Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Do you “Defect” from Iran? Leaving Iran doesn’t strike me as being something you do in the middle of the night. People seem to leave it freely to move to Canada, that’s for sure. I’ve worked with lots of them. [/QUOTE] That’s not the same as a former general and government official with lots of high-level intel leaving to work for a hostile foreign government (assuming that’s the case here). ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2007, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/7 "2007-03-12T10:05:20Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [He disappeared in Istanbul 2/7/07.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Reza_Asghari) Some news outlets are reporting he [defected to the U.S.](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,257482,00.html) What would make an Iranian leader defect to the U.S.? Sincere change of heart? $weet offer? Fear of rivals? [/QUOTE] Kidnapping? He left his family behind so that’s where my money is. We had all the ‘high level defectors’ telling us about Iraq’s WMD’s too. We should brace ourselves for more of the same crap and remember the saying’ fool me once …’ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/8 "2007-03-12T14:19:11Z")
[Now the Iranians are saying Askari has been spying on them for years.](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1497034.ece) The _Times_ reports Askari “is understood to be undergoing debriefing at a Nato base in Germany after he escaped from Iran, followed by his family.” ( :dubious: “Understood” by whom? Classic passive-voice nonattribution . . .) ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/9 "2007-03-12T14:55:58Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [Now the Iranians are saying Askari has been spying on them for years.](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1497034.ece) The _Times_ reports Askari “is understood to be undergoing debriefing at a Nato base in Germany after he escaped from Iran, followed by his family.” ( :dubious: “Understood” by whom? Classic passive-voice nonattribution . . .) [/QUOTE] And previously the Times was reporting his family were still in Tehran. If his family were got out then kidnapping is unlikely. Still doesn’t mean I will believe one word he allegedly says when the inevitable war-mongering official leaks start filtering out. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2007, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/10 "2007-03-12T16:37:07Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] What would make an Iranian leader defect to the U.S.? Sincere change of heart? $weet offer? Fear of rivals? [/QUOTE] Fear of being put up against the wall to pose for gunfire? Disagreement with the Iranian regime? Disillusion with the revolution, or the theocracy and the direction his country is taking? Being slighted (or the perception he was slighted) or under appreciated by his government? Some kind of scandal…sexual, or perhaps (considering he’s a muslim) something to do with drugs or alchohol? Or porn? 😉 Money? All of these and more are the classic reasons for someone to become a spy for another country. Could be any of these…or none of them. Maybe he had ties back to the old regime and was a sleeper agent or something. Maybe he was a planted agent. We could speculate, but won’t actually know until we learn more about the guy and hear his story. I don’t see what the debate is to be honest…just a lot of folks who seem to want to jump in and poison the well as early on as possible wrt whatever this guy might have to say. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/11 "2007-03-13T08:59:10Z")
Well, his family have surfaced in Iran. Wife brother and 3 children have been talking to reporters and they claim kidnapping. [Relatives of missing general accuse US of kidnap](http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2032510,00.html) > [@](#): > > Gen Asgari’s wife, Ziba Ahmadi, emerged with his brother and three of his children to talk to reporters. They said all the general’s close relatives remained in Iran. “We are here in Iran and have not gone anywhere,” said Mrs Ahmadi. “These are enemies’ rumours. My husband did not have any problems with Iran that would have led him to seek asylum. The person who wants to seek asylum first takes his family with him.” > > Gen Asgari has two wives. However, his brother, Davoud, said: “His wives, children, father and brother are all in Iran.” Therefore I feel completely justified in sneering at anything that we might be told he has ‘revealed’. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/12 "2007-03-13T10:48:22Z")
Sneer all you want - I couldn’t be happier. The Bush administration’s basic dishonesty aside, this is a major coup on the Mossad’s behalf (from what I understand, the U.S. is playing a supporting role in this affair). Iran and my country are in the middle of a cold war, and this guy will be a major source of intelligence on nuclear programs (if they exist) military deployments, weapon shipments and so on. I care less about what intelligence agencies say than what they learn, and they’re going to learn a lot now. Frankly, I don’t see the problem here. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/13 "2007-03-13T11:02:28Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] Well, his family have surfaced in Iran. Wife brother and 3 children have been talking to reporters and they claim kidnapping. [Relatives of missing general accuse US of kidnap](http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2032510,00.html) Therefore I feel completely justified in sneering at anything that we might be told he has ‘revealed’. [/QUOTE] … Or just perhaps part of the defection plan went awry, and the family were captured _en route_ out of Iran. And are now toeing the Company Line in order to remain in (relatively) one piece. Not saying this is necessarily the case, but just as you all seem to be very wary (quite likely wiht good cause) of accepting US claims of Willful Defection at face value – I think we may want to be wary of Iranian claims to the contrary, as well. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/14 "2007-03-13T11:13:50Z")
[QUOTE=Noone Special] … Or just perhaps part of the defection plan went awry, and the family were captured _en route_ out of Iran. And are now toeing the Company Line in order to remain in (relatively) one piece. Not saying this is necessarily the case, but just as you all seem to be very wary (quite likely wiht good cause) of accepting US claims of Willful Defection at face value – I think we may want to be wary of Iranian claims to the contrary, as well. [/QUOTE] The USA are proven liars when it comes to war mongering. They also have form when it comes to kidnapping. There is nothing to suggest coercion of his family. Until evidence to the contrary is produced the explanation most fitting the facts is he is yet another illegal kidnapping and so any information that may be leaked to back up another war or military strike is to be discounted. And in reply to the previous poster - no it is not a coup - kidnapping foreign nationals and interrogating them is plain wrong and evil. We would not acccept it if a UK or American politician or general was kidnapped by another state. There is not one law for the USA and Israel and one for the rest. All ‘Might Makes Right’ hand-waving to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/15 "2007-03-13T11:25:04Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] The USA are proven liars when it comes to war mongering. They also have form when it comes to kidnapping. There is nothing to suggest coercion of his family. Until evidence to the contrary is produced the explanation most fitting the facts is he is yet another illegal kidnapping and so any information that may be leaked to back up another war or military strike is to be discounted. [/QUOTE] _Real-Politik_, all of it. I don’t trust anything any government, including my own, claims until otherwise and independently verified. It’s a case of two conflicting versions here, and I’m not prepared to believe either party implicitly until some kind of independent verification of one version or another is offered… I think it may be a good idea for all of us critical observers to consider reserving judgment, at least short term. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/16 "2007-03-13T12:04:51Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] And in reply to the previous poster - no it is not a coup - kidnapping foreign nationals and interrogating them is plain wrong and evil. [/quote] And what are the Iranians going to do - not recognize my country? Oops! Too late. I’m sorry, but giving arms to Hezballah is also wrong and evil. Anything that makes my country safer is fine by me. [QUOTE=tagos] We would not acccept it if a UK or American politician or general was kidnapped by another state. There is not one law for the USA and Israel and one for the rest. All ‘Might Makes Right’ hand-waving to the contrary. [/QUOTE] Waht do you mean “accept it”? I don’t “accept” lots of things. I don’t accept that _Firefly_ was cancelled; I don’t accept the fact that I don’t like any of the music on the radio. Whether or not I accept something has nothing to do with the fact that it exists. So no, America and Israel would not accept it if one of their generals was kidnapped, which is why they’ll try to make sure it doesn’t happen, and if it _does_ happen, they’ll respond. Maybe Iran will respond to the latest incident. We’ll see. And yes, there _is_ one law for America and one for Iran. There is also a different law for Israel, a different law for france, a different law for Belize. Everny nation has its own laws. According to Iranian law, what Israel and the U.S. did was illegal. OTOH, according to Iranian law, the very existance of my country is illegal, so who gives a shit about Iranian law? The only laws that were broken are those of Turkey, and that’s a matter between Ankara and Jerusalem\D.C. I’m pretty sure they’ll be able to settle things. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/17 "2007-03-13T12:14:17Z")
[QUOTE=Noone Special] _Real-Politik_, all of it. I don’t trust anything any government, including my own, claims until otherwise and independently verified. It’s a case of two conflicting versions here, and I’m not prepared to believe either party implicitly until some kind of independent verification of one version or another is offered… I think it may be a good idea for all of us critical observers to consider reserving judgment, at least short term. [/QUOTE] There’s no point reserving judgement unless you believe the truth will out before Bush fabricates an Iranian conflict. So far we have no evidence whatsoever for defection and plenty for kidnapping. We have suspects and motive and no doubt soon we’ll be leaked the supposed fruits. No doubt it is Real Politick as usual. So I want to hear no bleating, wailing and complaining (and this isn’t addressed specifically at you) when US diplomats or Generals are kidnapped or assassinated. Nor for that matter when US troops are held hostage in Iraq, even if it is proven Iranian Intelligence did it directly. Just Real-Politick as usual. Or state-terrorism. And all the while let’s remember this, reprinted from the Independent [here](http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0329-05.htm) even if it does turn out he is a defector. > [@](#): > > The case for war against Iraq was dealt another embarrassing blow yesterday due to claims by an American newspaper that the first-hand intelligence source on Saddam Hussein’s alleged mobile bioweapons labs was a politically motivated Iraqi defector now dismissed as an “out-and-out fabricator”. > > The mobile labs, since exposed by weapons inspectors as hydrogen production facilities at best and phantoms at worst, were one of the centerpieces of the US Secretary of State Colin Powell’s prewar address to the United Nations. As recently as January, Vice President Dick Cheney maintained that discovery of the labs would provide “conclusive” proof that Iraq possessed WMD. > > A detailed investigation in the Los Angeles Times revealed that the source claiming to have seen mobile bioweapons labs was the brother of one of the senior aides to Ahmed Chalabi, the leader of the Iraqi National Congress, who recently boasted how the erroneous information provided by his group achieved his long-cherished goal of toppling Saddam. > > The source, given the unintentionally appropriate code name Curveball, was an asset of German intelligence and was never directly interviewed by US officials. The Pentagon and the Central Intelligence Agency do not even know exactly who he is, the LA Times reported. > > David Kay, the postwar weapons inspector whose declaration in January that Iraq had no WMD initiated a series of hammer-blows to the credibility of the Bush administration and the British government, described Mr Powell’s use of Curveball’s information before the UN as “disingenuous”. > > He told the LA Times: “If Powell had said to the Security Council: ‘It’s one source, we never actually talked to him, and we don’t know his name’, I think people would have laughed us out of court.” > > Mr Powell told the world on 5 February last year the administration had “firsthand descriptions of biological weapons factories on wheels and on rails” capable of producing enough anthrax or botulinum toxin to kill “thousands upon thousands of people”. He showed “highly detailed and extremely accurate” diagrams of how the trucks were configured. Revealingly, he could only produce artist renditions, not actual blueprints or photographs. And this [steaming pile of horse shit](http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/iraq/threat.htm), > [@](#): > > One defector, Saeed al-Haideri, has described biological and chemical sites located in government companies and private villas — even beneath Saddam Hussein Hospital in Baghdad. Specifically, al-Haideri has alleged that two so-called presidential sites in Radwaniya — from which Iraqi authorities barred U.N. inspectors in 1997 — contained sealed, airtight, underground structures build by a Yugoslav company. And meanwhile: [US Intelligence on Iran fails to add up](http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2019482,00.html) > [@](#): > > Much of the intelligence on Iran’s nuclear facilities provided to UN inspectors by American spy agencies has turned out to be unfounded, according to diplomatic sources in Vienna. > > The claims, reminiscent of the intelligence fiasco surrounding the Iraq war, coincided with a sharp increase in international tension as the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) reported that Iran was defying a UN security council ultimatum to freeze its nuclear programme. > > \ > > At the heart of the debate are accusations, spearheaded by the US, that Iran is secretly trying to develop nuclear weapons. However, most of the tip-offs about supposed secret weapons sites provided by the CIA and other US intelligence agencies have led to dead ends when investigated by IAEA inspectors, according to informed sources in Vienna. > > “Most of it has turned out to be incorrect,” said a diplomat at the IAEA with detailed knowledge of the agency’s investigations. “They gave us a paper with a list of sites. [The inspectors] did some follow-up, they went to some military sites, but there was no sign of [banned nuclear] activities.” > > “Now [the inspectors] don’t go in blindly. Only if it passes a credibility test.” > > One particularly contentious issue concerned records of plans to build a nuclear warhead, which the CIA said it found on a stolen laptop computer supplied by an informant inside Iran. In July 2005, US intelligence officials showed printed versions of the material to IAEA officials, who judged it to be sufficiently specific to confront Iran. > > Tehran rejected the material as forgeries and there are still reservations about its authenticity in the IAEA, according to officials with knowledge of the internal debate inside the agency. > > “First of all, if you have a clandestine programme, you don’t put it on laptops which can walk away,” one official said. “The data is all in English which may be reasonable for some of the technical matters, but at some point you’d have thought there would be at least some notes in Farsi. So there is some doubt over the provenance of the computer.” This amoral Administration has no problem whatsoever with lies, manipulation of intelligence and kidnapping and can’t be given one sliver of benefit of the doubt because if you do they’ll use it to kill people again. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-iranian-deputy-defense-minister-ali-reza-askari-defects-to-u-s/395335/18 "2007-03-13T12:42:22Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] This amoral Administration has no problem whatsoever with lies, manipulation of intelligence and kidnapping and can’t be given one sliver of benefit of the doubt because if you do they’ll use it to kill people again. [/QUOTE] Me, me, me. Enough! Not everything is about America, you know. As for the Iranian nuclear weapon program, it’s a no-brainer. 1. They have money. 2. They have nuclear reactors. 3 .They’d be idiots if they didn’t want nuclear weapons, seeing as their two biggest enemies have nukes. 1. They aren’t idiots. 2. Therefore, they have a nuclear weapon program. See? It’s called not being stupid.