# Former President vs. their VP--has it ever happened before? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 5, 2023, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043 "2023-06-05T16:38:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![whc.03grady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@whc.03grady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whc.03grady)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/1 "2023-06-05T16:38:21Z")
Mike Pence has file to run for POTUS. Donald Trump did so late last year. Presumably they will be on the same R ballot in at least some states. Has it ever been the case that a former US President and his Vice-president have faced one another in the Primaries? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/2 "2023-06-05T16:48:54Z")
Prior to 1800 the VP was whoever was the runner-up in the presidential election, and so this question is effectively inapplicable to the pre-1800 era. Which wasn’t all that many electoral cycles. Since in the modern era there is seldom a real primary involving a sitting president running for immediate re-election to a second consecutive term (e.g. Biden in 2024, Trump in 2020), the likely way for this to occur is when a one-term president runs for president again after having been defeated in his first attempt at a second consecutive term. If Trump pulls off this feat in 2024 he will be only the second such US president after Grover Cleveland, who’s famous for little else than his own two-nonconsecutive-term presidency. And Cleveland’s first term VP (Thomas Hendricks) did not run for the Democratic nomination for president in Cleveland’s unsuccessful bid for reelection in 1888, nor his successful bid 4 years later in 1892. In the era before FDR and the two-term limit there may well have been cases where the sitting president and one of his prior VP(s) faced off in the primaries for a failed bid at a third term. But I doubt it, and I’m too lazy to investigate 40-some election campaigns times 2+ parties… So IMO Trump would be the first. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/3 "2023-06-05T16:58:05Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > And Cleveland’s first term VP (Thomas Hendricks) did not run for the Democratic nomination for president in Cleveland’s unsuccessful bid for reelection in 1888, nor his successful bid 4 years later in 1892. His death in 1885 was a real roadblock there. ---
**Author:** ![Honolulu\_Lulu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/87869e/32.png) [@Honolulu\_Lulu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honolulu_Lulu)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/4 "2023-06-05T17:02:14Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > … Grover Cleveland, who’s famous for little else than his own two-nonconsecutive-term presidency. A candy bar that is still made today was named after his daughter. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/5 "2023-06-05T17:03:13Z")
> [@whc.03grady](#): > > Has it ever been the case that a former US President and his Vice-president have faced one another in the Primaries? Well, in 1844, both Van Buren and Richard Johnson (the former VP) sought the Democratic nomination. But the nomination was by convention, not primary. (James Polk won the nomination, and the election). ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/6 "2023-06-05T17:10:06Z")
> [@Honolulu\_Lulu](#): > > A candy bar that is still made today was named after his daughter. Sure it is… _wink_ ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/7 "2023-06-05T17:21:57Z")
The real question here is, how many people are going to register as Republicans, just so they can vote for Pence, as a “Fuck you!” to Trump? Because losing to Pence would absolutely drive Trump mad. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/8 "2023-06-05T17:26:32Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > The real question here is, how many people are going to register as Republicans, just so they can vote for Pence, as a “Fuck you!” to Trump? > > Because losing to Pence would absolutely drive Trump mad. - That would drive anyone mad. You lost to The Blandest Man in America? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/9 "2023-06-05T19:21:30Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > The real question here is, how many people are going to register as Republicans, just so they can vote for Pence, as a “Fuck you!” to Trump? Suddenly, I’m tempted. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/10 "2023-06-05T19:29:13Z")
In the states with registration by party and party-registrant-only primaries, there are a lot of reasons to register tactically when one party or the other has an interesting primary your vote can influence and one doesn’t. In 2024 it’s the Ds turn to have the boring anointment primary and the R’s turn to have the knock-down drag-out primary. Then again, in the era of modern statistics and propaganda I would be very reluctant to register as an R just to vote for not-Trump in my state’s primary because if very many D’s did that, the news would spread “Large numbers of historical D voters are abandoning their screwed-up anti-American party for the wonderful patriotic Rs” Which “momentum” will have a lot of influence with the low info casual voters that both parties really need to attract and motivate to carry the day. IOW, don’t hand the enemy a convenient narrative to beat you with. They can invent enough on their own without you giving their lies a central core of truth. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/11 "2023-06-05T19:46:15Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > But the nomination was by convention, not primary. How long have primaries been around? ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/12 "2023-06-05T20:08:13Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > How long have primaries been around? I believe they started in the early 1900s. Strictly speaking, of course, the nominee is _still_ selected by convention, but now most states having a binding primary election. But if we’re looking for an example of a primary election ballot with both a former president and his former VP on the ballot, it’s going to probably have to be post-1900. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/13 "2023-06-05T20:09:00Z")
John Nance Garner is the main example. He was Franklin Roosevelt’s Vice President. There was a question whether Roosevelt would run for a third term in 1940. When Roosevelt wouldn’t declare his intentions, Garner declared he was running. Roosevelt eventually decided to run and won the nomination (and subsequent election). He replaced Garner as his running mate with Henry Wallace. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/14 "2023-06-06T00:01:36Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > > [@Honolulu\_Lulu](#): > > > > A candy bar that is still made today was named after his daughter. > > Sure it is… _wink_ That famous candy bar, the candy bar called Baby Ruth, was named after Grover’s daughter, Ruth. And now you know…the rest of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/15 "2023-06-06T00:06:46Z")
Not quite Prez v Veep, but in 1912 there was President Taft, former Secretary of War to Teddy Roosevelt, being challenged by Teddy in the Bull Moose party. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/16 "2023-06-06T00:14:25Z")
Also not quite Prez vs. Veep, but Henry Wallace -FDR’s third-term VP, ran against Harry Truman, FDR’s fourth-term VP, in 1948. > [@peccavi](#): > > That famous candy bar, the candy bar called Baby Ruth, was named after Grover’s daughter, Ruth. A lasting memorial, as Ruth Cleveland had died 17 years before the candy bar was introduced. 🧐 ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/17 "2023-06-06T00:14:40Z")
> [@peccavi](#): > > That famous candy bar, the candy bar called Baby Ruth, was named after Grover’s daughter, Ruth. That’s the company’s story… but it came out while Babe Ruth was extremely popular, two decades after “Baby” Ruth had died. Hence the wink. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/18 "2023-06-06T00:18:50Z")
To continue the side-track: the story about the Baby Ruth candy bar being named after an actual “baby”, and not a person named Babe Ruth, was subject to lawsuits. At the time, no one seriously believed the story that the candy bar was _not_ named after the baseball star; baby Ruth kind of just showed up as an excuse to use that name. In the end, Babe Ruth lost the right to use his own name on a candy bar, but here we are today. > **[The 1920s Dispute Between Babe Ruth And Baby Ruth Candy - Tasting Table](https://www.tastingtable.com/1197586/the-1920s-dispute-between-mlb-legend-babe-ruth-and-baby-ruth-candy/)** > > The Baby Ruth bar clearly got its name from the legendary baseball star, right? The dispute went to court in the 1920s with surprising results. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/19 "2023-06-06T00:35:36Z")
And both Baby Ruth and Babe Ruth are still dead. Along with General Franco. I’m not sure what it all means. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043/20 "2023-06-06T04:08:40Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > And both Baby Ruth and Babe Ruth are still dead. Along with General Franco. I’m not sure what it all means It means none of those people are going to be running for Pres in the Republican primaries. Just about everyone else will be. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-president-vs-their-vp-has-it-ever-happened-before/985043.md?page=2)