# Former Supreme Court Justice Convinced By Book That Texas Executed An Innocent Man in 1989 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 28, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163 "2015-01-28T23:43:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/1 "2015-01-28T23:43:53Z")
> **[Former Supreme Court Justice Confirms Texas Once Executed An Innocent Man](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/former-supreme-court-justice-confirms-texas-once-executed-an)** > > Retired U.S. Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens acknowledged evidence that Texas put an innocent man to death for a murder in the 1980s. > [@](#): > > During a lecture at the University of Florida on Jan. 20, retired Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens acknowledged evidence that proved “beyond a shadow of doubt” that Texas executed an innocent man in the 1980s. > [@](#): > > Stevens referred to a book The Wrong Carlos by Columbia Law School professor James Liebman, saying that it had sufficiently demonstrated that “there is a Texas case in which they executed the wrong defendant and the person they executed did not in fact commit the crime for which he was punished.” Anybody read this book? Was it convincing? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/2 "2015-01-29T00:14:47Z")
Let’s also not forget Cameron Todd Willingham, [executed in Texas](http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1917454) because of junk science, public enthusiasm for the death penalty and sloganeering which discourages governors from issuing stays of execution or pardons. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/3 "2015-01-29T09:38:27Z")
Well, of course DeLuna didn’t do it - he _said_ it was the other guy dressed like him and who looked just like him, and why would he lie about something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/4 "2015-01-29T11:50:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, of course DeLuna didn’t do it - he _said_ it was the other guy dressed like him and who looked just like him, and why would he lie about something like that? Why would Hernandez, the other guy who dressed like DeLuna and looked like DeLuna, tell people that DeLuna was being executed for a murder he had committed? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/5 "2015-01-29T12:00:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Why would Hernandez, the other guy who dressed like DeLuna and looked like DeLuna, tell people that DeLuna was being executed for a murder he had committed? To make himself look like a badass by claiming he’s killed people and got away with it? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/6 "2015-01-29T12:49:37Z")
Smapti, you’ve got two people dressed similarly, and a murder victim, and evidence linking someone dressed in this style to the commission of the murder. One person denies committing the murder; the other one claims to have committed it. The question is this: into how many knots will you tie yourself to claim that the one who claims he committed the murder is innocent, and the one who denies he committed the murder is guilty? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/7 "2015-01-29T13:04:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Smapti, you’ve got two people dressed similarly, and a murder victim, and evidence linking someone dressed in this style to the commission of the murder. One person denies committing the murder; the other one claims to have committed it. > > The question is this: into how\*\* many knots\*\* will you tie yourself to claim that the one who claims he committed the murder is innocent, and the one who denies he committed the murder is guilty? Numerous, sailing quality ones, I’d wager. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/8 "2015-01-29T13:57:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Smapti, you’ve got two people dressed similarly, and a murder victim, and evidence linking someone dressed in this style to the commission of the murder. One person denies committing the murder; the other one claims to have committed it. > > The question is this: into how many knots will you tie yourself to claim that the one who claims he committed the murder is innocent, and the one who denies he committed the murder is guilty? I seem to recall being told in another thread that confessions of this nature are worthless and can’t be trusted. What we have is a man dressed like the killer, identified as the killer by multiple witnesses, found hiding under a truck in a puddle of water on a cold winter night, having discarded his shirt, carrying the same amount of cash missing from the store, who changed his story several times, admitted to lying to police, and blamed everything on a man he couldn’t identify when shown his mugshot and who can’t be proven to have ever met him, let alone been present at the scene of the crime. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/9 "2015-01-29T14:41:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, of course DeLuna didn’t do it - he _said_ it was the other guy dressed like him and who looked just like him, and why would he lie about something like that? It took a team of Columbia law students and private investigators around the United States a year and a half of investigative work, a three-part Chicago Tribune article, and now a book, just to say that? It must be a very short book. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Let’s also not forget Cameron Todd Willingham, [executed in Texas](http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1917454) because of junk science, public enthusiasm for the death penalty and sloganeering which discourages governors from issuing stays of execution or pardons. I haven’t read the book but I did read [the _New Yorker_ article](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire) on the Willingham case. It’s very well researched and very persuasive. Incidentally, Liebman’s book on the case in the OP was a followon to two studies he had done in 2000 and 2002 on “exceptionally high rates of serious legal errors in US capital cases” based on state and federal court reviews between 1973 and 1995, which found nearly all the errors to be of the kind that undermined the finding of guilt or the justification for the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/10 "2015-01-29T15:16:57Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > It took a team of Columbia law students and private investigators around the United States a year and a half of investigative work, a three-part Chicago Tribune article, and now a book, just to say that? It must be a very short book. And their evidence is circumstantial. It all rests on DeLuna’s claim that someone named “Carlos Hernandez” committed the crime, but he couldn’t identify him when shown pictures of every Carlos Hernandez known to police, and his description of what Hernandez was wearing contradicted the witness descriptions. The Columbia team found _a_ Carlos Hernandez (whose picture was one of the ones that DeLuna said wasn’t him) who supposedly claimed he’d done the deed. He was conveniently already dead and couldn’t answer the allegations against him, and there’s nothing to connect him to DeLuna or to the crime aside from an assertion that he was a regular at a nearby bar. I’m not convinced that DeLuna’s Carlos Hernandez was anything other than a figment of his imagination. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/11 "2015-01-29T15:27:18Z")
I have read the book and found it unpersuasive. It was several years ago so my memory may not be perfect but here goes. All the evidence that Smapti points to is true. They try to poke holes in the case by emphasizing a few things. The first thing they make a big deal of is the crime was committed with the type of knife that the other Carlos was known to carry and the one who was convicted did not commit any previous crimes with a knife. This showed the Northeast bias of the writer as the type of knife is what is known as a buck knife. Buck knifes are by far the most common type of knife for a southern person to carry. Every male person in my family owned at least one and I was given one by my uncle when I was 13. It is just way too common a knife to make a big deal out of. The other thing they make a big deal of was that the one Carlos had killed before and the one who was convicted had a record that was just petty crime and sexual assault. However, from reading the description of the crime it seemed to me that the in addition to the robbery the assailant wanted to sexually assault the victim, which is something the Carlos who was convicted would do. They both had motivation for their stories. The one Carlos blamed the other one to try to get out of prison and the other one claimed responsibility to intimidate those around him. After reading the book, I thought they got the right guy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/12 "2015-01-29T15:44:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I seem to recall being told in another thread that confessions of this nature are worthless and can’t be trusted. You were told in another thread that confessions resulting from _custodial interrogations_ are untrustworthy. That is not to say that Mr. Hernandez’ confession is trustworthy, just that (AIUI) it’s not the sort discussed in the other thread. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/13 "2015-01-29T15:52:47Z")
JP Stevens has been the worst of far-left activist judges for years before he retired. The Willingham case is more interesting because whether or not he was guilty, it is his case that I point to when I say the problem with the death penalty is not putting people to death, it’s that the whole system can be so screwed up that no one takes a timeout. Jailhouse confession to a cellmate? The fact that those are used in ANY cases is ridiculous. The judge allowed the prosecution to make up motivations that had no basis in fact. How is that not prejudicial? The arson investigators assumed three places accelerant was used but only one place (the front door) tested positive. From the New Yorker > [@](#): > > Vasquez [the arson investigator] was now convinced that Willingham had killed his children. If the floor had been soaked with a liquid accelerant and the fire had burned low, as the evidence suggested, Willingham could not have run out of the house the way he had described without badly burning his feet. A medical report indicated that his feet had been unscathed. So he’s guilty because the reality didn’t match their theory - oh and did I mention that not accelerant was found there? Why didn’t someone call a timeout and say, “Hmmm. Maybe his feet being unburned is FURTHER evidence that no accelerent was used and so maybe it wasn’t arson.” Classic case of disregarding facts that don’t corroborate your theory and the judge, jury, clemancy board and governor all could have stopped because it did not make sense but they didn’t. Just pass it along to the next guy. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/14 "2015-01-29T15:55:48Z")
IIRC Stevens has been against the DP since he left the Court. Perhaps that affects his judgment. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/15 "2015-01-29T16:00:13Z")
It was my understanding without a recommendation from the Texas Board of Pardons and Parole the Governor is limited to granting a one time 30 day stay of execution, he can’t unilaterally grant clemency or pardon. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/16 "2015-01-29T16:01:14Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > {…} This showed the Northeast bias of the writer as the type of knife is what is known as a buck knife. Buck knifes are by far the most common type of knife for a southern person to carry. {…} As someone born and raised in the Northeast I can’t remember ever being in a store that sold knives that didn’t sell Buck, sometimes to exclusion of all other brands. I’d happily wager that the Buck 110 knife is by far the most common type of lock-back folding knife for any American person to carry, in the past 45 years, Buck has sold 14 million of them. (And unless you’re doing metallurgic tests I can find you dozens, if not hundreds, of knives that look exactly like a Buck 110 'cause it a classic pattern.) CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/17 "2015-01-29T16:02:46Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Let’s also not forget Cameron Todd Willingham, [executed in Texas](http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1917454) because of junk science, public enthusiasm for the death penalty and sloganeering which discourages governors from issuing stays of execution or pardons. Agreed. It’s bad enough getting executed for a murder you didn’t commit, but it’s even worse to get executed for a murder that didn’t even happen. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/18 "2015-01-29T16:18:53Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Agreed. It’s bad enough getting executed for a murder you didn’t commit, but it’s even worse to get executed for a murder that didn’t even happen. And that’s why it’s a good thing that that’s not what happened in the Willingham case. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/19 "2015-01-29T16:31:19Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > It was my understanding without a recommendation from the Texas Board of Pardons and Parole the Governor is limited to granting a one time 30 day stay of execution, he can’t unilaterally grant clemency or pardon. Irrelevant in this case. Rick Perry is on record stating before and after the execution and despite some evidence to the contrary he is absolutely certain no mistakes were made, that Willingham was a wife beater, and that he deliberately burned his children to death to cover for child abuse. He’s also stated that subsequent forensic evidence was trumped up by “supposed experts” (his air quotes, not mine) as part of an anti death penalty campaign. Given all that, it’s unlikely he was going to grant any stays or clemency. Even the prosecutor in the case said well after the fact that the arson investigation was significantly flawed, though he also covered his ass by stating he thought the other evidence was sufficient for the murder conviction. It’s a disgusting case. Even in the worst case, Willingham didn’t deserve the death penalty but a prison sentence. The investigation process was too flawed to even remotely be considered serving justice. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163/20 "2015-01-29T16:39:48Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > He’s also stated that subsequent forensic evidence was trumped up by “supposed experts” (his air quotes, not mine) as part of an anti death penalty campaign. Rick Perry is an ass, but he makes a valid point here. A good number of the people white-knighting for Willingham weren’t and aren’t doing so because they feel strongly about the forensic evidence, they’re doing so because they oppose the death penalty _under any circumstances_ and want to move popular opinion towards abolishing it. If that means taking the side of unrepentant murderers because there’s an opportunity to create doubt in the public consciousness, then so be it. > [@](#): > > Even in the worst case, Willingham didn’t deserve the death penalty but a prison sentence. Assume that there was absolutely no doubt that Willingham burned his children to death. Why would he deserve to live? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-supreme-court-justice-convinced-by-book-that-texas-executed-an-innocent-man-in-1989/711163.md?page=2)