# Former theists turned atheists: what arguments were most effective in turning you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037 "2011-04-20T02:14:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/61 "2011-04-20T23:01:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > To atheists who used to be theists - especially to those who were the most hardcore, fundamentalist types - what is the most effective argument or point you ever heard from atheists? What is the the thing that, if it didn’t stop you in your tracks, at least stayed with you, made you think, made you reevaluate? > > I will say that I’ve asked this question of atheists elsewhere, and the most common answer I’ve ever gotten for what turned theists into atheists is simply reading the Bible, but I’d also like to know if anything atheists typically say on these kinds of message boards (or IRL) actually permeates. I’m sure that dismissive “sky fairy” comments do not, but what does? I was pretty hardcore Christian for I guess about a year around age 14-15. I needed an elective in 10th grade and everything was full except home ec and “bible history” (should’ve been called “church,” in retrospect), so I took bible history, thinking it was “the right thing to do.” I grew up in the bible belt, so I had always sort of had this vague notion of God, and believed in him, but unbeknownst to me at the time, my parents were atheists (they’re both from California), so I was never hardcore about it. God was something I sort of took for granted and yet never thought about at the same time, if that makes sense. That year I took bible class though, I became pretty hardcore for awhile. I started going to church twice a week with anyone who would go with me, started carrying around a bible and quoting it to people; basically just being an insufferable little shit. By the end of that year I had read the entire bible (some books several times) and was sniffing bullshit. The teacher told us a bunch of stories that I gobbled up, but later found out were urban legends from a book that I found at a comic book convention of all places. Examples were the “missing day theory” and the story of geologists drilling so deep they could hear people screaming in hell, etc. Pretty much the same sense of “doing the right thing” that lead me to take the class in the first place lead me to believe that this “God” character was quite the bully. It was Hell that did it for me, in the end. I couldn’t accept that a loving God would refuse to prove his existence, and still burn one’s soul for eternity if he or she didn’t take it on faith. I can’t say any atheist argument convinced me, because I had never heard one, nor had I (to my knowledge) ever met an atheist until quite awhile after deciding I was one. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/62 "2011-04-20T23:46:51Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I’m not sure what it means that so many of of those responding were raised Catholic. Of those who have responded and identify what denomination they were, 7 out of 10 so far say they are ex-Catholic. One more. A former Catholic _convert_, to boot. Although I still consider myself a Catholic - just not a very good one. ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/63 "2011-04-21T03:59:37Z")
Raised a casual Protestant, Disciples of Christ up until age ten, when my parents divorced and neither continued in the church, with some Southern Baptist exposure thereafter from my favorite grandparents. Did most of my Bible reading independently, in which I came to the perfectly-obvious-to-me conclusion that the NT was merely the best effort of ordinary men to recount an extraordinary event. It wasn’t until I was a young adult that I learned some people consider it the literal divinely-inspired Word of God, which I considered absurd. Still, I had no problem believing the crucifixion and resurrection happened, and therein lay our hope of salvation. And I found it humbling to accept that we aren’t masters of our fate, but rather dependent on God’s will. Where all this fell through for me was when I went through a personal crisis and prayed to God to explain why this was happening. In part it was the familiar Problem of Evil, but, mostly, I just wanted to understand. What I realized, sitting in a nice Universalist church, was that what I thought of as prayer was really just the sound of one hand clapping. God couldn’t (or at least didn’t) answer the question. And thinking back on it, all the times I had thought God answered my questions, I had been the one supplying the answers based on what I thought God would say. A few days later - it was winter - I was walking about the southeast corner of Central Park in New York City. I came upon one of those sublime, eerie images you might find in an art film. It was mid-afternoon and a large pond had formed a sheer, almost invisible layer of ice. A couple dozen seagulls were standing there, as if miraculously perched on the water. What was the difference, I wondered, between this flock and the average congregation of any church in America? Suppose these gulls raised their thoughts in unison to the skies above, would the Great Gull hear them? It was at this point that I had my epiphany. Of course, no amount of concentration by those gulls, nor the magnificent beauty of the scene, would bring the Great Gull into being. Voltaire said it best, when he observed that if God didn’t exist, it would be necessary to invent him. Isn’t it time to admit we did? I later learned better and deeper reasons to doubt. But this is where it started for me. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/64 "2011-04-21T04:41:32Z")
I was about 10 or 11, I think. I got home from catholic grammar school before my sisters from high school. My mom and I used to watch TV, Little House On the Prairie was popular. The episode we watched one day was where Caroline was going to be alone in the farmhouse for a couple days. Weather turned this into weeks. She slipped and cut her leg, soon becoming quite infected and bulbous. She consulted the bible and read the part in Matthew where Jesus says, “If my right hand offend me, cut it off…” Caroline is next seen holding a big knife. My mother chirps in and says, “Ugh. People get so many dumb ideas from that awful book.” Now me, I’ve been going to catholic school since pre-school. I have never, ever heard things like this from the bible. Since humans didn’t bless us with the Internet yet, I decided to read the entire bible. Then another version, then another. After reading this in its entirety, I found that is was historically fictional, based on bloody and violent fantasy and that this Yahweh guy was _morally inferior to all humans._ He is the largest asshole I have ever studied. I will say that over and over again. As I asked priests, nuns, lay people and family on passages that confused me, I never found an answer that either made sense or didn’t feel made up. After that, I was agnostic before I graduated high school and through college I became atheist after learning about many other personal views of religions. People simply made up reasons and justified them to suit their own needs. I learned about how evil the catholic church really is and was, especially in bigotry and education, (Ask Galileo Galilei if you ever meet him) in social classes and social differences, the murders which never ceased to end all based on hatred. Soon later, after understanding the inaccuracies, the hatred, the real history that religion has caused and continues to cause, I am quite a vocal anti-theist. I used to feel sorry for believers-- especially when they make their leaps of logic, of education, how they confuse faith with trust, and how they really never “act” christian or catholic or any other religion, majority of people just _say_ they believe in the hopes to get a free gift of everlasting happiness. But on the other hand, without religions’ silly and archaic beliefs and the constant clutching on to ignorance that many people pull… we wouldn’t have any cool ghost stories, I suppose. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/65 "2011-04-21T09:02:42Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > I have to conclude based on the above statement that you think one true God existing is more likely than no gods existing. So how is it that you’re an atheist? > Yet you think believing one true god existing is less silly than being without belief? > Because you think a monster being there is as likely as one not being there or because you want to put the child at ease? > That’s not what atheists do, IME. Why do you reject theism other than “it did not compute”? I don’t believe there is sufficient evidence of a “one true God”. I find the certainty that God does not exist silly from the point of view of proving a negative. There is a difference between not finding enough evidence for the existence of God and believing in the non-existence of God. I take the child to look for the monster for two reasons. The first is that inquiry is how we figure out things and that’s an important lesson. The second is that labeling an experience is not the same as identifying it. We’ll go “check for the monster” so we can figure out what the child is experiencing. What’s wrong with deciding that theism doesn’t compute based on years of inquiry over a broad set of belief systems? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/66 "2011-04-21T09:23:34Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > I don’t believe there is sufficient evidence of a “one true God”. I find the certainty that God does not exist silly from the point of view of proving a negative. We’re talking about belief, not certainty. You said: _“So I’m “spiritual” without a belief in a God, but I stop short of Strong Atheism because I think the belief in the non-existence of God is just slightly sillier than the belief in a “one true God”.”_ You think _the belief in the non-existence of God is just slightly sillier than the belief in a “one true God”._ So how is it you’re an atheist? > [@](#): > > There is a difference between not finding enough evidence for the existence of God and believing in the non-existence of God. I know. But you think believing a magical being doesn’t exist is sillier than believing it does. I’m wondering how someone can come to that conclusion and be without belief. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/67 "2011-04-21T09:42:23Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > We’re talking about belief, not certainty. You said: > > _“So I’m “spiritual” without a belief in a God, but I stop short of Strong Atheism because I think the belief in the non-existence of God is just slightly sillier than the belief in a “one true God”.”_ > > You think _the belief in the non-existence of God is just slightly sillier than the belief in a “one true God”._ > > So how is it you’re an atheist? > I know. But you think believing a magical being doesn’t exist is sillier than believing it does. I’m wondering how someone can come to that conclusion and be without belief. > **[Atheism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism)** > > Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which is the belief that at least one deity exists. > Historically, evidence of atheistic viewpoints can be traced back to classical antiquity and early Indian philosophy. In the Western world, atheism declined a... > [@](#): > > Philosophers such as Antony Flew,[40] and Michael Martin,[33] have contrasted positive (strong/hard) atheism with negative (weak/soft) atheism. Positive atheism is the explicit affirmation that gods do not exist. Negative atheism includes all other forms of non-theism I’m an atheist because I have no belief in a God. I reject Strong Atheism. I never claimed to have no beliefs. Any system of reason requires axioms. (AFAIK) I just think our time is better spent on things we can discuss as shared experience. Life is too short to spend on binning stuff as impossible, and we’re not very good at that part anyway. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/68 "2011-04-21T09:51:52Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > I’m an atheist because I have no belief in a God. I reject Strong Atheism. I’ll try this one more time: Why do you think "the belief in the non-existence of God is just slightly sillier than the belief in a “one true God”? > [@](#): > > I never claimed to have no beliefs. When I said: _“I’m wondering how someone can come to that conclusion and be without belief.”_ I meant _without belief in the existence of God/gods_, not _without belief in anything_. I thought it was obvious, ---
**Author:** ![jinty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jinty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jinty)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/69 "2011-04-21T09:58:04Z")
I think for me it was the disconnect between the bible stories we got told at church (great stories, I have to say - lost tribes wandering in a desert, a city falling to an army of trumpets, seas parting, you know the sort of thing) and real life as I experienced it. My life was _entirely_ without such supernatural elements \*, and once I started wondering (age 8 or 9 or so) why that was, it wasn’t too long before I realised I didn’t actually believe the stories, and it was an equally short trip to the realisation that I didn’t believe in their central character either. - And has remained so. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/70 "2011-04-21T10:48:01Z")
It was after I realized that Santa Claus really doesn’t exist, when I was about 9 maybe? No big revelation, no catching my parents putting out presents, I just figured out “You know what? It can’t work this way. It doesn’t make sense.” and that was pretty much it. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/71 "2011-04-21T12:55:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I will say that I’ve asked this question of atheists elsewhere, and the most common answer I’ve ever gotten for what turned theists into atheists is simply reading the Bible, but Yep, that describes me. I was part of a small intensive study group toward the end of high school. The two issues I coulkdnt ever figure out were (i) why god would set things up the way we believed he did (ie, he created people just to torture them forever if they didn’t have a specific belief) and (ii) exactly what is and is not a sin. Later the problem of evil hit me pretty hard. I went off to college and left behind childish things. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/72 "2011-04-21T17:15:45Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > I’ll try this one more time: Why do you think "the belief in the non-existence of God is just slightly sillier than the belief in a “one true God”? You’re unfamiliar with the “difficulty” of proving the non-existence of something? I’d say it’s a little more difficult than proving a particular God is THE God. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/73 "2011-04-21T17:17:40Z")
Is it sillier to believe the Easter Bunny exists or to believe the Easter Bunny does not exist? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/74 "2011-04-21T17:29:27Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > You’re unfamiliar with the “difficulty” of proving the non-existence of something? I’d say it’s a little more difficult than proving a particular God is THE God. I don’t agree with that. In the case of what most describe as the “one true God”, He contradicts Himself in holy books, displays error when He is supposed to be omniscient, shows malice when He is supposed to be omnibenevolent, breaks physical laws showing His existence is impossible, etc. But my disagreement is irrelevant. We’re not talking about _proof_, we’re talking about _belief_. Even strong atheists don’t necessarily claim to have _proof_ that no gods exist. Likewise, theists don’t necessarily claim to have proof that any gods exist. You said, "“the **belief** in the non-existence of God…” I don’t see how an atheist finds another atheist’s belief that no gods exist sillier than a theist’s belief in a “one true God”, but I won’t ask for explanations anymore. You may find the following helpful: > **[Richard Carrier Theory » Internet Infidels](https://infidels.org/library/modern/richard-carrier-theory/)** > > Proving a Negative (1999) Richard Carrier   I know the myth of “you can’t prove a negative” circulates throughout the nontheist community, and it is good to dispel myths whenever we can. As it happens, there really isn’t such a thing as a... ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/75 "2011-04-21T17:34:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Is it sillier to believe the Easter Bunny exists or to believe the Easter Bunny does not exist? Two vastly silly options disengages my belief assignment software. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/76 "2011-04-21T18:03:18Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > I don’t see how an atheist finds another atheist’s belief that no gods exist sillier than a theist’s belief in a “one true God”, but I won’t ask for explanations anymore. I don’t find someone’s belief silly, I find the belief in non-existence silly. People have all sorts of good reasons for believing things I consider silly. If I dig a bit deeper, I guess it boils down to the fact that theists are often criticized for belief in something they can’t prove. Personally I’d rather not commit to belief or disbelief unless it seems to improve my model of the world. Since a ton of people act as if they believe there’s a God (an assumption here for the sake of argument), I’d rather not commit to the position that there isn’t one. That’s actually one of the stronger reasons over time that disappointed me about Christians in particular. The fundamental tenet of the Christian faith is that Jesus Christ is the path to God. Everything else seems negotiable. But when I’ve faced people who claim they’re “Saved” with a simple question about testing their behavior, I’ve been shocked at the response. I ask them if Jesus Christ were standing there and you told him what you were thinking or he can see what you’re doing, “would he smile or frown”. And I’ve gotten with unbelievable ( 🙂 ) frequency, “that’s not the point”. If they deny that fundamental tenet, there’s nothing left. And analogously, if an athiest believes in the non-existence of God, that seems to contradict what tends to be a position guided by empiricism. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/77 "2011-04-21T18:06:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Is it sillier to believe the Easter Bunny exists or to believe the Easter Bunny does not exist? > [@AlienVessels](#): > > Two vastly silly options disengages my belief assignment software. You think it is vastly silly to believe that the Easter Bunny does not exist? Ok… ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/78 "2011-04-21T18:31:39Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > I don’t find someone’s belief silly, I find the belief in non-existence silly. I don’t understand the nit-pick. The belief in the non-existence of gods would have to be _someone’s belief_. > [@](#): > > If I dig a bit deeper, I guess it boils down to the fact that theists are often criticized for belief in something they can’t prove. It’s irrelevant what some may criticize them for. What’s relevant is that belief in extraordinary things sans evidence and impossible things is irrational. Believing things like the Easter bunny doesn’t exist isn’t in the same “silly” camp as believing it does. > [@](#): > > Personally I’d rather not commit to belief or disbelief unless it seems to improve my model of the world. Disbelief is being without belief. I can think of a lot of beliefs that would “improve my model of the world” but I can’t force myself to believe in these things. I either find something credible or I don’t. I would assume you operate the same way. > [@](#): > > Since a ton of people act as if they believe there’s a God (an assumption here for the sake of argument), I’d rather not commit to the position that there isn’t one. I don’t think those that believe there is no God, Easter Bunny, invisible dragon in the garage have _committed_ to anything. > [@](#): > > And analogously, if an athiest believes in the non-existence of God, that seems to contradict what tends to be a position guided by empiricism. I believe we live in a world without ghosts and goblins and other silly propositions based on empirical evidence. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/79 "2011-04-21T18:45:51Z")
> [@SmartAlecCat](#): > > You think it is vastly silly to believe that the Easter Bunny does not exist? > > Ok… It does seem pretty unlikely based on my experience. > **[Multiverse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse)** > > This is an accepted version of this page > > The multiverse is the hypothetical set of all universes.\[a\] Together, these universes are presumed to comprise everything that exists: the entirety of space, time, matter, energy, information, and the physical laws and constants that describe them. The different universes within the multiverse are called "parallel universes", "flat universes", "other universes", "alternate universes", "multiple universes", "plane universes", "parent and child universes"... There might be one somewhere. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037/80 "2011-04-21T18:59:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It all started in religion class in 5th grade. Sister Something was lecturing about baptism and how you had to be baptized in order to get into heaven. I asked what happened to babies who died before their parents had them baptized. She said, in so many words, that they were SOL. I said that wasn’t fair. She was not amused. I take that back. It began earlier, when I was in 3rd grade. I noticed that the priest always gave me the same penance (3 Our Fathers and 3 Hail Marys) no matter what my sins were. I remember thinking there was something fishy about the whole thing. Just went downhill from there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-theists-turned-atheists-what-arguments-were-most-effective-in-turning-you/579037.md?page=5)