# FORMER Wisconsin hospital employee deliberately destroys \>500 doses of COVID vaccine **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2020, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323 "2020-12-31T04:52:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/141 "2021-01-12T01:20:39Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > if a pharmacist isn’t an expert of pharmaceuticals what are they? Pharmacists are experts. Or ought to be. Pharmacy techs are NOT. They have some basic knowledge but can get their certification in as little as 15 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/142 "2021-01-12T01:32:31Z")
> [@digs](#): > > the Bar Sinister being used by bastard sons on coats of arms Bend sinister, actually. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/143 "2021-01-12T03:19:19Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Pharmacists are experts. Or ought to be. Pharmacy techs are NOT. They have some basic knowledge but can get their certification in as little as 15 weeks. Pharmacy techs are experts at sitting on hold with insurance companies, and at sending prescriptions back to doctors because the prescribed drug is not on the patient’s insurance formulary. Or that’s how it’s been explained by my wife, the former pharmacy tech. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/144 "2021-01-12T03:23:38Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Pharmacists are experts. Or ought to be. Pharmacy techs are NOT. They have some basic knowledge but can get their certification in as little as 15 weeks. I missed the tech part from your post. I was worried I was about to find out what I thought I knew about pharmacist was all wrong. Thanks for that. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/145 "2021-01-12T03:24:41Z")
I looked into becoming a Pharmacy Tech, as it’s one of the quickest way to get trained to give Covid vaccines. I was amazed at HOW quick! From everything I read, it’s close to unskilled labor… ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/146 "2021-01-12T14:57:59Z")
Re the what’s-the-harm angle when it comes to taking over-the-counter placebo remedies: aside from the risk of contamination/adulteration with some of these products, the main risk is that people will avoid proven drugs/treatments in a sometimes endless pursuit of alternative panaceas. As for Lydia Pinkham’s and the many other patent remedies whose popularity was largely based on their content of alcohol (and in some instances, opioids), you have to wonder how many addicts were created/sustained on such products.\* \*my understanding is that the version of Lydia Pinkham’s that survived into the modern era was not alcohol-based, at least not to the cocktail level of its predecessor. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/147 "2021-01-12T15:07:20Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I looked into becoming a Pharmacy Tech, as it’s one of the quickest way to get trained to give Covid vaccines. > > I was amazed at HOW quick! From everything I read, it’s close to unskilled labor… Interesting. I’ve been wondering if i ought to volunteer to give covid vaccinations. Maybe i should research this. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/148 "2021-01-12T16:53:24Z")
I’ve got a Bio background, so I thought there’d be a way to volunteer. But it looks like shots are only being given by medical and pharmacy people. Unless anyone knows of another way to help, even if it takes some training. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/149 "2021-01-12T17:11:59Z")
I recently finished [The Great Influenza: The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OCXFWE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o06?), and I learned to my surprise that the practice of medicine was a real latecomer to the use of the scientific method. As in, not until the 1870s or so. “Doctors” didn’t even need a college education to be accepted to a “medical school” and what was taught was mostly Galen, no questions allowed. The first 5 or so chapters are a history of medicine. The TL;DR version is that most patients did just as well _without_ a doctor as they did with one; and being treated by a doctor frequently made things worse, if not outright deadly. ---
**Author:** ![CorpusNeptune](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corpusneptune/32/17561_2.png) [@CorpusNeptune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CorpusNeptune)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/150 "2021-01-12T17:25:56Z")
As someone who lives in Wisconsin, it sucks a _lot_ to have my state get a lot of bad press lately (being a hotspot for COVID, the Kenosha riots, and now this). I feel…less safe? Just knowing the damage one state, _my_ state, can do is scary to think about. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/151 "2021-01-12T17:38:05Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > the practice of medicine was a real latecomer to the use of the scientific method. As in, not until the 1870s or so. Johns Hopkins was one of the first medical schools to rely on science, and insist their students have a degree to get admitted and be trained in hospitals by physician scientists. They opened in 1893. It wasn’t until the publication of [The Flexner Report](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3178858/) in 1910 )which emphasized the need for scientific medicine a la Hopkins) that your average medical schools began to get on board with those ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/152 "2021-01-12T18:18:18Z")
In contrast, the first homeopathic school in the US opened in 1835 and by the start of the 20th century there were 22 of them operating. They started to close down in the early 1900s though, with the last school exclusive to homeopathy closing in 1920. I guess once people figured out that medicine based on science actually worked, they’d prefer that over placebos. Homeopathy started becoming popular again in the 1970s thanks to the New Age movement and here we are today, with people still getting suckered by them. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/153 "2021-01-12T18:24:00Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > I recently finished [The Great Influenza: The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OCXFWE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o06?), and I learned to my surprise that the practice of medicine was a real latecomer to the use of the scientific method. As in, not until the 1870s or so. “Doctors” didn’t even need a college education to be accepted to a “medical school” and what was taught was mostly Galen, no questions allowed. > > The first 5 or so chapters are a history of medicine. The TL;DR version is that most patients did just as well _without_ a doctor as they did with one; and being treated by a doctor frequently made things worse, if not outright deadly. > [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Johns Hopkins was one of the first medical schools to rely on science, and insist their students have a degree to get admitted and be trained in hospitals by physician scientists. They opened in 1893. > > It wasn’t until the publication of [The Flexner Report](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3178858/) in 1910 )which emphasized the need for scientific medicine a la Hopkins) that your average medical schools began to get on board with those ideas. > [@Atamasama](#): > > In contrast, the first homeopathic school in the US opened in 1835 Yup. There was a significant chunk of time during which one might well have been better off with homeopathy – not because it worked (aside from the placebo effect) but because it wouldn’t make you sicker and increase your chances of dying, and a lot of “standard” medical treatment of the time would. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/154 "2021-01-12T18:44:59Z")
If it helps, Oregon has lousy optics right now. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/155 "2021-01-12T20:37:57Z")
All they need to do to get certified is take and pass a test, and they don’t need classroom work to do it - just a study guide. A non-certified tech just needs, for most stores, to be 18 years old and have a high school diploma. And they do the grunt work and are horribly underpaid in most cases. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/156 "2021-01-12T20:38:43Z")
And this is a large part of the grunt work. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/157 "2021-01-12T20:41:09Z")
Yep. All of that was covered in those five chapters or so. As I said, it was _fascinating_ reading. Anyone looking for a brief overview of the history of scientific medicine will find a good one in this book. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/158 "2021-01-12T20:43:28Z")
The first person I encountered who used medical marijuana, with the full knowledge of her doctors, was a woman who cut my hair when I was in college in the early 1990s. She had a seizure disorder, and the only drug on the market at the time that controlled them was carbamazepine, which she refused to take because to her, the side effects were worse than the seizures. She told me that whenever she felt a seizure coming on, she would take a hit, and not have a seizure. It worked for her, so why not use it? It enabled her to get off disability and go back to work. I’ve met a few people since who used it for chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting, and also for spasms associated with multiple sclerosis. The political writer Richard Brookhiser used weed when he was diagnosed with cancer many years ago, in the pre-Zofran days, and he said that the risk of addiction was, for him anyway, nonexistent: “If you associate marijuana smoking with hospital odors, nurses slapping your arm to raise a vein for chemo, and that little American Standard logo on your toilet bowl, trust me, you’re not going to want to smoke it for fun.” He also said that after several cycles, he couldn’t handle smoking it either, so his wife made tea with it and he drank it, and that also worked for him. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/159 "2021-01-12T20:47:40Z")
More recently, I heard a speaker on C-SPAN 2’s “About Books” talk about a patient who got the flu in 1918, and described his treatment, emphasizing that he was given multiple enemas, which were not only considered a cure-all at the time but in his case may have been necessary, because he was given large amounts of codeine to control his coughing attacks. My dad’s sperm donor was 13 years old in 1918, and he always had a bizarre whole-body tremor that was described as “Parkinson’s”, but it didn’t respond to medication and didn’t progress. We believe that he was an influenza survivor; Dad has said, “You used to see other people like that around, but you don’t any more.” ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/160 "2021-01-12T22:32:35Z")
That’s anecdotal, not science. Actual studies have shown much less impressive results compared to anti-epileptic drugs, anti-spasmodics, etc. I’m for legalization, but peddling it unproven as medication is not good medicine. Similar elixirs filled with morphine, barbiturates, cocaine, alcohol were once advertised as ‘cure alls’ and they sure stopped a lot of people from complaining about their symptoms. But that’s snake oil. Marijuana is getting pushed that way now as a cure all for everything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323.md?page=9)