# FORMER Wisconsin hospital employee deliberately destroys \>500 doses of COVID vaccine **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2020, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323 "2020-12-31T04:52:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/161 "2021-01-12T23:03:51Z")
This is true, BUT if this, or CBD, works, and isn’t harming the patient, and is being done with the doctor’s knowledge, I’m actually OK with it, and yes, it’s being studied. That’s how we got Marinol, a drug that many people for whom it’s prescribed also refuse to take because the side effects are so unpleasant. Variations of this, usually with a more modern font, show up periodically on my Facebook wall. I’ve always wondered what those “other ingredients” might be, especially because the active ingredients are actually in very low doses if it was taken as intended. (A “m” is a minim, basically a drop, and a “gr” is a grain - 15 milligrams.) p.s. If you took this, you probably wouldn’t care if you were sick, which like you said was probably its intent. > **[Sample CANNABIS Bottle!~Kohler's One Night Cough CURE! | #20148984](https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/sample-cannabis-bottle-kohlers-one-night-cough-1)** > > This unopened sample bottle was discovered in the basement of the long-closed CENTRAL DRUG STORE in CAMBRIDGE, OHIO about 10 years ago. It is embossed, and is only 3.5 tall. It is still in its wrappe ---
**Author:** ![CoconutPete](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coconutpete/32/5294_2.png) [@CoconutPete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoconutPete)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/162 "2021-01-12T23:06:59Z")
So you’re telling me the guy I met in an alley that sells pills that cure addictions is full of malarkey? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/163 "2021-01-13T05:27:35Z")
All kinds of pills cure addictions. Cyanide is one I can think of… ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/164 "2021-01-13T17:18:08Z")
Too many Cialis is another… ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/165 "2021-01-13T18:27:15Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > True, but I don’t see that happening at a pharmacy, where you’re already there for actual medication, let alone at a hospital pharmacy. > > Got any evidence for that assertion? Pharmacies are big movers of OTC/health/nutrition/alt med/groceries/lifestyle products these days. Most folks in them are NOT picking up prescriptions. Or so my many pharmacist friends and colleagues who have worked for the big chains have told me. > > They get folks who want to treat their diabetes/htn/heart disease with alternative/herbal/homeopathic products Only my own experiences, because the selection at pharmacies pales in comparison to elsewhere. People go to them who aren’t getting prescriptions, but they’re usually getting medicine of some sort, or are there for other reasons other than picking up fake remedies. The people I know of who are really into homeopathy don’t shop at the drug store, as they don’t have the “good stuff.” And even most of them will go back to actual medicine when it’s actually serious. I’m not saying that homeopathy, or, worse stuff that actually has some effect, should be at drug stores. I think it’s idiotic. And I’m willing for my own experience to not match the reality. It’s very possible you know better, especially given the people you know and the field you are in. But I do still think that actively destroying medicine because you believe it’s designed to cause harm is worse than selling homeopathy along with actual medicine. I can at least still go to a pharmacy that sells homeopathic nonsense. Heck, I can even see an argument based on the placebo effect that they serve _some_ purpose, as long as, as you say, they’re never used instead of actual medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/166 "2021-01-13T22:37:16Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Only my own experiences, because the selection at pharmacies pales in comparison to elsewhere. In many food desert regions, the pharmacies are the de facto grocery stores. Many inner city folks rely on them for just about everything, from food to hygiene products to xmas shopping. Most of them have grocery carts now for their customers. And homeopathic meds are right out there with the ‘real’ OTC meds at such places, loudly proclaiming their benefits on the label, generally for a much lower price, because it’s just water. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/167 "2021-01-15T02:36:54Z")
Update: As of yesterday (1/13/21), Mr. Brandenburg’s license was suspended. > **[ORDER0007148-00017321.pdf](https://online.drl.wi.gov/decisions/2021/ORDER0007148-00017321.pdf)** > > 165.81 KB ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/168 "2021-01-15T15:27:17Z")
Those who say “what’s the harm?” in selling placebos like homeopathic drugs should take a look at this site, in particular the section on homeopathy: [http://what](http://what)’[stheharm.net](http://stheharm.net) People do in fact take homeopathic magic water and naturopathic slop for serious conditions, or for seemingly benign ones that turn fatal, as in the case of a 19-month-old child from Alberta whose parents had faith in supplements and watched as he grew sicker with what turned out to be bacterial meningitis: “On March 11, however, (Ezekiel Stephan) worsened once more. He would not eat or drink. He was lethargic and his body grew stiff.” “By March 12 (2012), he was so stiff that his back arched and the parents called their nurse and birth attendant back. She told the court she thought Ezekiel could have meningitis, and told David and Collet to take him to a doctor.” “Instead, they gave him an electrolyte and amino-acid supplement, called Total Reload, and treated him with olive-leaf extract, garlic and methylsulfonylmethane, They also called a naturopath in Lethbridge who suggested a supplement called BLAST.” “On March 13, on the way to Lethbridge to pick up BLAST and run errands, Ezekiel was so stiff that he couldn’t fit in his car seat. The family put him on a mattress in the back of the car. They did not take him to a doctor.” “At 8:30 that evening, though, Ezekiel was having so much trouble breathing, David and Collet called 911 — as they were living in a remote area, they decided to drive him to the hospital, placing him, again, on the mattress in their car.” “En route, the child stopped breathing, and Collet began to give him chest compressions and emergency breathing as they called 911; now they drove to meet the ambulance. They gave the child CPR for 10 minutes, but he was blue by the time they met the ambulance.” “Ezekiel was eventually flown to the Alberta Children’s Hospital in Calgary, where he was declared brain dead on March 15 and removed from life support three days later.” The parents were initially found guilty of neglect-related charges, but on appeal a judge threw out the guilty verdict. The state (crown) appealed, noting that among other things the judge rejected an expert witness’ testimony because he didn’t like the expert’s accent and command of English. That appeal was heard in June 2020; I haven’t heard of a subsequent verdict. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/169 "2021-01-15T22:20:53Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > [http://what](http://what)’[stheharm.net](http://stheharm.net) I think there’s quite a bit of harm in an apostrophe. Maybe try this link instead. > **[What's The Harm?](http://www.whatstheharm.net/)** > > This is a list of topics in which we have found stories where a lack of critical thinking has caused unnecessary harm, death, injury, hospitalizations, major financial loss or other damages. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/170 "2021-01-15T22:30:45Z")
Apostrophes are a force for good but, alas, not allowed by RFC 1034. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/171 "2021-01-26T23:10:08Z")
It looks like the pharmacist might plead guilty. > [@](#): > > A Wisconsin pharmacist has agreed to plead guilty to charges filed today in federal court that he attempted to render hundreds of doses of COVID-19 vaccine ineffective. > > According to court documents filed in U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin, Steven R. Brandenburg, 46, of Grafton, Wisconsin, was charged with two counts of attempting to tamper with consumer products with reckless disregard for the risk that another person will be placed in danger of death or bodily injury. Brandenburg has agreed to plead guilty to the charges, which each carry a maximum sentence of 10 years imprisonment. > **[Hospital Pharmacist to Plead Guilty to Attempting to Spoil Hundreds of COVID...](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/hospital-pharmacist-plead-guilty-attempting-spoil-hundreds-covid-vaccine-doses)** > > A Wisconsin pharmacist has agreed to plead guilty to charges filed today in federal court that he attempted to render hundreds of doses of COVID-19 vaccine ineffective. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/172 "2021-01-27T06:31:49Z")
Is that a watered-down plea bargain? He attempted to spoil the vaccines? Actually, he succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/173 "2021-01-27T07:05:02Z")
Probably (almost certainly) easier to prove the attempt without having to necessarily show the adverse outcome (that someone was _actually_ placed in danger of death or bodily injury—that may require a certain standard beyond just the speculative “they could get COVID, if they are exposed to someone with COVID, and the vaccine would likely prevent it!”). Depending on the available penalties, it may not be much better for him. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/174 "2021-01-27T15:01:50Z")
Adding the attempt statute is a common amendment of a criminal charge to secure a plea agreement. It typically lowers the level of offense by one rung on the felony ladder. Here’s CNN’s coverage: > **[Wisconsin pharmacist to plead guilty to tampering with Covid-19 vaccine vials...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/26/us/wisconsin-pharmacist-covid-vaccine-guilty-plea/index.html)** > > The Wisconsin hospital pharmacist who in December allegedly removed 57 vials of Covid-19 vaccine from cold storage because he believed the vaccine could harm people has signed a plea agreement "acknowledging that he was guilty" of trying to make the... ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/175 "2021-01-28T00:58:51Z")
I’d sure hate to be the person who didn’t get into pharmacy school because he was there instead, even if it took this long for paranoia to surface. His STBX-wife had grounds to cut off visitation when their 6-year-old came home from his place and told her, “Our real home is in heaven.” I’m glad he was at least caught before he (to our knowledge) took anyone out with him. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/176 "2021-01-28T18:15:53Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Is that a watered-down plea bargain? He attempted to spoil the vaccines? Actually, he succeeded Homeopathic charges? But let’s be fair - in sufficient dosages, homeopathic elixirs are an effective treatment for dehydration. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/177 "2021-01-28T18:17:39Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > homeopathic elixirs are an effective treatment for dehydration. I think that a homeopathic treatment for dehydration might be to get the patient to inhale from a vial that has extremely dry air in it… ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/178 "2021-01-28T18:24:43Z")
Homeopathic water would be a vial of water and you dump out half of it, shake it vigorously, and dump out half of that, then shake it vigorously… Do that a couple hundred times, then have the patient inhale the air. The “memory” of the water will rehydrate you. The more often you empty the vial, the more potent the rehydration will be. It’s sickening that the described process is literally how homeopathy works. It’s basically alchemy sold on drugstore shelves. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/179 "2021-01-28T19:32:25Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Homeopathic water would be a vial of water and you dump out half of it, shake it vigorously, and dump out half of that, then shake it vigorously… Do that a couple hundred times, then have the patient inhale the air. The “memory” of the water will rehydrate you. The more often you empty the vial, the more potent the rehydration will be. What’s the homeopathic treatment for drowning? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323/180 "2021-01-28T19:38:36Z")
Not sure, you could argue that CPR is diluting the water in their lungs by replacing it with air. That might be the only time the theory actually works (by accident). Though the “water memory” left behind by the water you removed might “superdrown” them or something, based on homeopathic theories. It’s hard to tell, you can’t really apply logic to homeopathy which is based around giving people placebos (which in the best case are harmless, and in the worst case are [very harmful](https://www.theledger.com/article/LK/20090617/News/608074820/LL)) and is essentially faith healing. It’s an alternative to science and medicine, not a form of it. So really, I dunno. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/former-wisconsin-hospital-employee-deliberately-destroys-500-doses-of-covid-vaccine/929323.md?page=10)