I think you may be hitting on something Obama was going for with his speech about race relations. Some people saw him as throwing his white grandmother under the bus, but I don’t think that was his point. His point is that he loves his grandmother and her racism is a part of who she is, and we can’t address the issue without addressing the whole person and understanding how deeply woven racism is in the whole fabric of our culture (I think that’s what he was trying to say but it was a while ago.)
My grandmother is racist, of the ‘‘I’m not racist because I have a black coworker I like and don’t use the n-word’’ variety. I tell her she’s racist pretty much every time she says something racist. Not in any sort of ‘‘let’s dialog’’ sort of way but in a matter of fact way that I think it would be good for her to know. It always cracks my grandfather up when I tell my grandmother she’s racist. I think he’s amused by her self-denial. I doubt he has any denial whatsoever about being racist. Racism is just something people do in some towns, the way some people talk about the weather to pass time. It’s hard to describe unless you’ve grown up in that kind of environment.
My grandmother was effectively the mother I didn’t have, she cleaned my wounds when I fell down as a kid, gave me a safe place to be with plenty of unconditional love, took my problems seriously and helped me survive to adulthood. Whatever my grandparents’ flaws - and trust me, there are many worse than racism - I owe them an unending debt of gratitude for giving me something stable and loving to hang on to.
Am I going to disown this lady because she thinks too many black people use the local pool? Hell no I won’t. Will I continue to call her on her shit? You bet.
This thread is a perfect example of why I don’t post much here anymore. It took just a few messages for it to devolve into more tedious political attacks.
Definition of a fanatic: someone who won’t change his mind, and who won’t change the subject. This board is full of them. Ten years ago I warned that it was becoming an echo chamber that would destroy quality debate. And that’s exactly what has happened.
I was here 10 years ago, but I was quite young, and I don’t remember it being all that different. In what way would you say it was different back then?
That’s too bad. I wish it were more diverse now. The idea that this board has become an echo chamber is a little unsettling, because I perceive many other places as way, way worse. From my vantage point, this is the best we’ve got.
It IS better than most for civil conversation, but these days that’s a very low bar to hurdle.
I have found it more useful to inhabit smaller, more focused boards. If you want to talk astronomy without some clown jumping in to claim that Trump is killing all the astronomers or something, best go find a place where real astronomers talk shop. If you want to know what the right is thinking, it’s best to just go listen to them. Same for the left. I’d rather know that a place is biased than go to a supposedly impartial site that is nonetheless biased just as much. At least in the former case I know who the players are and what their default assumptions may be. And it’s more honest.
To go back to the OP’s question, I having been a reader of the board pretty much since it was created. I created an account in 2005 and have only sporadically posted. Part of the reason for that is because I know there are numerous posters who are more articulate and well informed than I am so it’s really hard for me to contribute something original or meaningful. This board is probably one of my favorite places on the internet.
I’d like to use your answer too please.
For as long I’ve been a member, I’d say my total post count may not put me in lurker status, but it’s definitely low compared to others. I don’t find enjoyment in feeling attacked for sharing my viewpoint; and my opinions are mostly neutral; slightly leaning to the right. I’m not going to get into an online argument. Online discussions aren’t really discussions. They’re a way for two people to hide behind Internet based instant Internet research which could literally go on forever. At least with a person to person discussion you only use the tools at your disposal. Regarding your comment about this board becoming increasingly partisan and left leaning… I disagree. Because I don’t think it’s BECOMING partisan and left leaning… I think it’s ALWAYS been partisan and left leaning.
This is also one of the main reasons why I don’t post much. By the time I see a thread about subject that I have experience in or have something to contribute, someone else has usually stolen my thunder. Other times there are topics that I’m interested in, but the thread goes nowhere (damn us lurkers for not contributing). I’m sure this is related to my lack self-confidence and being unable to carry a conversation in person though.
I also agree the anti-Trump sentiment, particularly in non-political threads, and propensity to bash opposing views is a turn off.
I stopped coming here for many years-- no particular reason, just started getting out more I think and keeping busier-- but when I came back I was afraid to post again for fear of someone replying with: “Reported” thinking my account was hijacked and posting spam.
I’ve considered responding to some older threads threads I’ve been interested in, but then I expect to get responses about how it’s zombie thread and OP hasn’t posted in 12 years.
I really do like this place in general though and have learned a lot from lurking here. I’m trying to post more, but it’s not going well.
People disagreed with me about most things I posted, it seemed, from the very beginning. I never cared too much about that. However, like too much internet discourse, it’s turned into that I’m not just wrong. Now, I’m evil.
So many people have expressed exactly how I feel about fear of posting and being attacked. I lurked here for lots and lots of years and just decided to recently join and post. The humor and wit was much sharper 15 years ago, the board overall was much lighter. People laughed more, even at the political and social stuff.
I stick with opinion-based discussions because I don’t like being made to feel as if I am submitting a paper for peer review or writing a research article with every post. However, I give mad props to those of you who do cite and document, because I have learned a great deal over the years of lurking. I shouldn’t have to cite my feelings or something I personally witnessed.
Politically, I am very middle of the road, with cycles of left-leaning and right-leaning. I have a strong sense of objectiveness and fairness and believe everyone should be treated as in individual. Giving the benefit of the doubt is important.
I could tell ya’ll stories of my life in rural Georgia that would draw a wide variety of responses, and I assure you it would ALL be the un-embellished truth. The Saints and Sinners aren’t always who you think they are. I have been party to so much horrible and heartwarming behavior from all races, but too many here would call me a liar and every other “ist” and “ism” in their little PC Book. I would participate in more controversial topics, but I don’t because it is too easy to be misunderstood, and I don’t wish to be judged and called names by people who know nothing of me and nothing of the things I know. I am much more guarded here than I am IRL.
I think most of us, if given the chance to sit and talk face-to-face, wouldn’t judge each other so harshly.
I envy the Salons and Drawing Rooms of the past, where the Great Thinkers of the day would be invited by hosts and hostesses to come and bat ideas around and engage in lively civil debate in fashionable surroundings and eat lovely food.
The Internet is indeed a poor substitute, but it’s all we got.
Agreed! And my interpretation of what I think Obama was trying to say was that being a racist isn’t the worst character flaw a person can have, and I agree with that. But of course, a great multitude missed the point. Nowadays calling someone a racist has become the perceived ultimate insult burn of the left, and sorry…IMO that’s not the worst thing a person can be. Sure there’s degrees of it, as with anything, but I think being prejudiced is worse.
People form opinions too quickly anymore, especially if you happen to be one of the ones who doesn’t fit nicely into a Red or Blue box.
Sometimes life takes turns that cause a pretty big disruption from the status quo (whether they be positive or negative turns). I’ve had some fairly significant changes in my life over the past year. Because of this, I haven’t been as engrossed in The Dope as I had been. But I still lurk and occasionally post.
I have felt in recent years that our “Cite?” culture has become unhealthy, with the demand for cites often being more an attempt to protect one’s pre-existing beliefs or dismiss another poster than a genuine request for more information.
Or maybe it’s always been that way here and my own perception has changed. In the time I’ve been posting here I went to grad school, completed my MLS, and became an academic research librarian. In my professional life people are always asking me to help them find information on various topics, and when I provide them with a cite they’re typically grateful and eager to read it.
All too often, this is not the case here.
I’m so used to helping people find information that I’ve sometimes responded to posts that weren’t even asking me for a cite but were directed at other posters or were a more general “I can’t find any sources about [whatever].” But I’ve made a deliberate effort to cut back on participation in threads where cites might be requested, because frequently the person claiming to want more information immediately finds some excuse to dismiss my cites (which are often actual peer-reviewed articles) and doubles down on their original position. This position is often unsupported by any cites at all or is based on either unreliable sources or a misinterpretation of a credible source.
I care about fighting ignorance, and that is one of the things that attracted me to librarianship as a career. However, I increasingly feel that it’s a depressing waste of time to spend my free hours trying to help people who don’t really want to learn more and are outright hostile when presented with new information.
I hear ya. I got too involved in a couple of message boards back in the aughts, in addition to lurking here, and it took me a while, but I did finally realize it is a colossal waste of time to argue with strangers on the Internet. As you said, you can do all that legitimate research legwork and it comes to nothing and wasn’t actually the conversation you originally thought it was. It is very disillusioning to realize you are casting your pearls before swine.
I now regret all that time spent posting and ranting. My children were young and there were times they wanted my attention and somehow I felt proving my point to this Rando and posting links was more important. I am very ashamed of that.
I quit all of it for a few years because I just got too caught up in it and it didn’t amount to a hill of beans at the end of the day. That’s why I don’t tend to start threads here because I have gaps when I take breaks from it.
