# Formerly exotic foods becoming native **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 9, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633 "2010-10-09T19:56:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/41 "2010-10-10T19:01:56Z")
What about pasta? Did the Italians invent it independently, or did they (as I once saw in a school film-strip) get it from China by way of Marco Polo? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/42 "2010-10-10T19:04:00Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > Also, no idea that chiles were from Mexico. Cannot imagine Indian food w/o them. Likewise with Thai cuisine, and some Chinese dishes. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/43 "2010-10-10T19:17:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Those baby corn-cobs you sometimes see in Chinese dishes could not have been there before Columbus, maize being a New World crop. The mystery is why the Chinese don’t seem to use full-grown maize for anything, except maybe kernels in fried rice. > > Or, maybe they do – I’m judging Chinese cuisine here by what’s on the menu in “Chinese” restaurants in the U.S. Corn was introduced to China in the 1500’s and they are actually one of the world’s leading producers, but consumers there generally prefer rice or wheat, and most of their corn is used as animal feed or in processed food products. Baby corn (or any type of whole-grain corn) is virtually unseen in typical everyday cuisine. > [@](#): > > What about pasta? Did the Italians invent it independently, or did they (as I once saw in a school film-strip) get it from China by way of Marco Polo? The history on pasta is not so clear-cut, but the general consensus is that it was independently invented around the world at various times throughout history using a variety of ingredients. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/44 "2010-10-10T19:25:09Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > > [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > > > Gestalt, food history is now a standard academic field: > > > > [Food history - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_history) > > > > You might want to get a introductory book on the subject and read about how various foods how traveled around the world. Unfortunately I don’t know of a good introduction to the subject. Can someone suggest one? > > I have several, as this is an interest of mine. > > _Food In History_ - Reay Tannahill > > _Spice: The History of a Temptation_ - Jack Turner > > _Nathaniel’s Nutmeg_ - Giles Milton > > _An Edible History of Humanity_ - Tom Standage > > And the classics: _Salt_, _Cod_, and _The Big Oyster_ by Mark Kurlansky. I particularly like _Salt_, because salt is so basic and universal, and the book covers so much territory. Also I recommend Tom Standage, _A History Of The World In Six Glasses_ and _An Edible History of Humanity_. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/45 "2010-10-10T19:29:30Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > That’s bullshit. You learned it from the [“Life in the 1500s”](http://www.snopes.com/language/phrases/1500.asp) email hoax or from a site that repeated its claims. Fair enough. I’ve never heard of that email, but the anecdote is very widespread. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/46 "2010-10-10T22:31:10Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Vanilla. Now so ubiquitous that the very name is synonymous with “plain”. Probably one reason for vanilla’s popularity was the invention of synthetic vanillin. If we had to rely on natural vanilla, it would still be considered a relatively scarce and exotic flavoring. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/47 "2010-10-10T23:44:12Z")
Of course there is a facebook group: [Culinary Historians of Atlanta](http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=162449497317). > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > > [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > > > I’d like to read more about this. No chile peppers in the Old World before Columbus? > > Yes, _chiles_ are a New World crop. More info [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_crops). Interesting article. No Old World cotton, strawberries, or squashes, either? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > [@Gestalt](#): > > > > Also, no idea that chiles were from Mexico. Cannot imagine Indian food w/o them. > > Likewise with Thai cuisine, and some Chinese dishes. Seconded. Bland currry? Bland Thai? Ewwww. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/48 "2010-10-11T00:06:37Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > No Old World cotton, strawberries, or squashes, either? Cotton was first being cultivated in Mexico around 6000 BC and in the Indus region about 1000 years later. Strawberries have 20 different native species scattered over the globe. The one we know; The garden strawberry was first bred in Brittany, France, in 1740 via a cross of Fragaria virginiana from eastern North America , which was noted for its flavor, and Fragaria chiloensis from Chile and Argentina brought by Amédée-François Frézier, which was noted for its large size. (From the Wikipedia page) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/49 "2010-10-11T00:27:54Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > > [@hajario](#): > > > > I remember my stepfather’s parents visiting us in the mid 1970’s in Los Angeles and they had never heard of a taco. **They weren’t from Hicksville either. They lived in Chicago**. > > Make up your mind. Perhaps this was true back then (and, in truth, yes it was) but, now, I would posit that Chicago’s regional Mexican food is at least as vibrant as LA’s. (My bias is to prefer Chicago, of course.) Those are the only two cities I go out of my way to get Mexican food. I’ll leave Texas out of this discussion. I like their Mexican, too, but it’s a specific kind of northern Mexican/Tex-Mex food. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/50 "2010-10-11T00:58:49Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > Of course there is a facebook group: [Culinary Historians of Atlanta](http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=162449497317). > > > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > > > Yes, _chiles_ are a New World crop. More info [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_crops). > > Interesting article. No Old World cotton, strawberries, or squashes, either? > > > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > > Likewise with Thai cuisine, and some Chinese dishes. > > Seconded. Bland currry? Bland Thai? Ewwww. Ahem. You do not necessarily have to burn your tongue in order to get taste sensations out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/51 "2010-10-11T05:07:03Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Ditto the peanut. What would Thai food be like without the peanut and the chili pepper? Not sure about peanuts per se, but that peanut sauce everyone loves with satay is actually a Malaysian/Indonesian import, as is satay itself. It’s become identified with Thai food though, and so is itself a local version of a “formerly exotic food that has become native.” ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/52 "2010-10-11T06:16:46Z")
[quote=“DCnDC, post:43, topic:556633”] > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Those baby corn-cobs you sometimes see in Chinese dishes could not have been there before Columbus, maize being a New World crop. The mystery is why the Chinese don’t seem to use full-grown maize for anything, except maybe kernels in fried rice. > > Or, maybe they do – I’m judging Chinese cuisine here by what’s on the menu in “Chinese” restaurants in the U.S. > [@](#): > > Corn was introduced to China in the 1500’s and they are actually one of the world’s leading producers, but consumers there generally prefer rice or wheat, and most of their corn is used as animal feed or in processed food products. Baby corn (or any type of whole-grain corn) is virtually unseen in typical everyday cuisine. I tend to think sweet corn isn’t so popular in China because they use archaic strains and feed crops mostly. Americas has been the unique, and native progenitors of the greatest variety and hybrids of corn. If I want rice technology I will refer to asia, if I want corn tech I will refer to the United States of America. American Sweet Corn is the best. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/53 "2010-10-11T06:45:30Z")
Well, to be “meta”, accurate , and entirely honest, even the bi-color sweet as candy, hybrids, strains, and varieties of sweetcorn we enjoy on July 4th and on through August and September are quite an exotic food that also happens to be native. some 600 years of intensive genetic engineering bring us the corn that would be entirely unfamiliar to any original American Aboriginals. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/54 "2010-10-11T13:21:21Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I have several, as this is an interest of mine. > > _Food In History_ - Reay Tannahill > > _Spice: The History of a Temptation_ - Jack Turner > > _Nathaniel’s Nutmeg_ - Giles Milton > > _An Edible History of Humanity_ - Tom Standage > > And the classics: _Salt_, _Cod_, and _The Big Oyster_ by Mark Kurlansky. I’ve read all but two of these and loved them. I further recommend: _Rum: A Social and Sociable History_ by Ian Williams 2005 _The True History of Chocolate_ by Sophie D. Coe and Michael D. Coe 1996 _Tea: Addiction, Exploitation, and Empire_ by Roy Moxham 2003 _Vanilla_ by Patricia Rain 2004 _Sweetness and Power: The Place of Sugar in Modern History_ by Sidney W. Mintz 1995 ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/55 "2010-10-11T14:16:51Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > Well, to be “meta”, accurate , and entirely honest, even the bi-color sweet as candy, hybrids, strains, and varieties of sweetcorn we enjoy on July 4th and on through August and September are quite an exotic food that also happens to be native. some 600 years of intensive genetic engineering bring us the corn that would be entirely unfamiliar to any original American Aboriginals. The most recent 600 years, even with the bits of genetic engineering on top of traditional selective breeding, was not nearly as intensive [as what came before](http://www.qfb.umich.mx/maize9.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633/56 "2010-10-11T14:30:49Z")
Croissants are Austrian in origin, introduced to Paris in the nineteenth century by an Austrian army officer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formerly-exotic-foods-becoming-native/556633.md?page=2)