# Forming the possessive singular of nouns ending in "s" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 4, 2000, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forming-the-possessive-singular-of-nouns-ending-in-s/28151 "2000-08-04T18:48:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2000, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forming-the-possessive-singular-of-nouns-ending-in-s/28151/1 "2000-08-04T18:48:30Z")
Which is correct : Regis’ show sucks. OR Regis’s show sucks. ? All through school, I was taught that the former sentence was correct, but Strunk & White’s _Elements of Style_ claims the latter choice is the right one. (On page 1 even. Apparently it’s a pretty common mistake.) So who’s right? ---
**Author:** ![tcburnett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@tcburnett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcburnett)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2000, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forming-the-possessive-singular-of-nouns-ending-in-s/28151/2 "2000-08-04T18:52:24Z")
Regis’ show sucketh. ---
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2000, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forming-the-possessive-singular-of-nouns-ending-in-s/28151/3 "2000-08-04T18:56:34Z")
I would always go for the latter choice (Regis’s) on the basis that “Regis’ show sucks” clearly means “the show belonging to many people called Regi sucks”. I would also say, “RE-jis-uz” rather than “RE-jis”. The “Regis’” usage seems to be pretty well-established though. St Thomas’s Hospital in London has massive lettering on the outside saying “St Thomas’ Hospital”. I walk past it every day and it really pisses me off. I have never met anybody who called it “St TOM-ass Hospital” nor have I met anybody who can explain how you get “TOM-ass-uz” from “Thomas’”. The usual justification, that it “looks funny” to write “s’s” doesn’t wash. After all, we don’t throw other grammatical rules out because the results “look funny”. ---
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2000, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forming-the-possessive-singular-of-nouns-ending-in-s/28151/4 "2000-08-04T18:58:34Z")
Sorry, should have put some spaces in there: some of my apostrophes got swallowed up by by quotation marks. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2000, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forming-the-possessive-singular-of-nouns-ending-in-s/28151/5 "2000-08-04T19:02:56Z")
My _Webster’s Standard American Style Manual_ says > [@](#): > > The possessive case of singular nouns ending in an _s_ or _z_ sound is usually formed by adding an apostrophe plus _-s_ to the end of the word. Style varies somewhat on this point, as some writers prefer to add an apostrophe plus _-s_ to the word only when the added _-s_ is pronounced; if it isn’t pronounced, the add just an apostrophe. According to our evidence, both approaches are common in contemporary prose, although always adding an apostrophe plus _-s_ is the much more widely accepted approach. > > NOTE: Even writers who follow the pattern of adding an apostrophe plus _-s_ to all singular nouns will often make an exception for a multisyllabic word that ends in an _s_ or _z_ sound if it is followed by a word beginning with an _s_ or _z_ sound. One of their examples of the note is “for convenience’ sake.” ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2000, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forming-the-possessive-singular-of-nouns-ending-in-s/28151/6 "2000-08-04T19:18:59Z")
Although I suppose there are certain special cases (like ENugent’s manual note on ‘convenience’), the indication I’ve got (from an English doctoral candidate, who, although he wouldn’t object, would find it odd that I’m saying have got in this sentence) is that the ‘s’ should always be pronounced, even if it’s not always written. This is because the apostrophe signifies something removed : in the case of the possessives, it’s the letter ‘e’. Formerly (most, I think) possessives were formed by adding ‘es’ to words (cf. German genetive masc. and neut., which decline similarly). The use of the apostrophe to represent the ‘s’ as well is what gives us St. Thomas’ yielding “Saint Thomases” when spoken. panama jack * * * ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2000, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forming-the-possessive-singular-of-nouns-ending-in-s/28151/7 "2000-08-04T19:19:50Z")
Either. In standard American English, you use an apostrophe without an s when making a possessive of a _ **plural** _ noun ending in _ **s** _. With a _ **singular** _ noun ending in _ **s** _, you use an apostrophe AND an _ **s** _. ``` (E.g.:"I finally managed to struggle out from under the ***succubus's*** suffocating weight." “I was determined never again to succumb to the ***voices’*** hypnotic power.”) ``` According to this rule, this would make your second example correct. _ **HOWEVER,** _ it wouldn’t be English if there weren’t exceptions and, in this case, contentions. Some authorities allow the following exceptions: –an apostrophe alone when forming the possessive of a _ **proper noun** _ ending in _ **s** _ (this would render your first example correct according to those authorities) –an apostrophe _ **alone** _ when an added _ **s** _would make three _ **s** _ sounds in a row. ``` (E.g. The ***princess’*** world came crashing down around her ears: there would be no surgery.) ``` Other authorities—chiefly British, IIRC–allow the exception only in the case of proper nouns of antiquity. ``` (E.g. She awakened screaming, ***Jesus’*** terrible leer etched forever upon her memory.) ``` This always seemed a bit arbitrary to me, but it makes a certain kind of sense in a culture so horribly afraid of defacing the icons of its forefathers. I don’t have any of my style books with me to cite specific sources, but I have researched this a bit in my previous job as a copy proofreader, and remember discovering several contradictory citations. I finally developed a style manual for our own to refer to in these cases for consistency’s sake. We went with the exceptions for proper nouns and the third _ **s** _ sound in a row, my rule of thumb being: write the _ **s** _ if you would speak it when saying the word. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2000, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forming-the-possessive-singular-of-nouns-ending-in-s/28151/8 "2000-08-04T23:59:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neutron star \* > \*\* > All through school, I was taught that the former sentence was correct, but Strunk & White’s _Elements of Style_ claims the latter choice is the right one. (On page 1 even. \*\* All my older brothers and sisters were taught the same thing that you were. I went through the same school system (in New York State) a few years later, and learned the rule of Strunk & White. Apparently, they changed the rules of English grammar in the few years between. ---
**Author:** ![Morgan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Morgan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2000, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forming-the-possessive-singular-of-nouns-ending-in-s/28151/9 "2000-08-05T00:10:46Z")
The FAQs at [alt.usage.english](http://www.faqs.org/faqs/alt-usage-english-faq/) are in agreement with **lissener** ’s post. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2000, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forming-the-possessive-singular-of-nouns-ending-in-s/28151/10 "2000-08-05T00:57:47Z")
I always teach my English students that a singular noun gets the 's even if it already ends in an s. The books say so as well.