# Formula 1 2017 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 24, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028 "2017-01-24T13:47:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/182 "2017-10-12T02:35:25Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Sure it’s likely he’ll win but it’s not a sure thing. I’m saying, “Sure thing”. No way he could give up 59 points in 4 races. At worst\*, he’ll have a DNF and finish 5th or 6th in the other 3. And Vettel ain’t gonna win all of the last 4. It’s done. \*Or tie Rindt. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/183 "2017-10-19T15:28:24Z")
Pretty good chance of rain this weekend at Austin. I hope it makes for an interesting race. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/184 "2017-10-22T19:33:10Z")
That pre-race nonsense was fairly embarrassing. And, yeah, **snfaulkner** is absolutely right about Buxton’s inane rambling. He’s especially bad today. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/185 "2017-10-22T21:00:36Z")
Cracking race, that. Kimi must be fuming. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/186 "2017-10-22T21:03:21Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Has Verstappen finished on the podium in the U.S., and if he does it this year will they be allowed to give him champagne? Thought w were gonna find out, but no. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/187 "2017-10-22T21:04:08Z")
Not so much, now! 😉 Did you see how he backed off after the last corner? He _damn near_ didn’t cover that 5 second penalty! ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/188 "2017-10-23T02:08:59Z")
Just started watching. Alonzo on the forth row? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/189 "2017-10-23T04:41:27Z")
I thought Vettel’s pass of Bottas, around the outside in Turn 1, was one of the best I’ve seen in ages. As to the Verstappen penalty, I kind of agree with David Hobbs. Drivers go off the track all the time, usually on the outside when accelerating out of a corner. I don’t know why they even paint lines on the track in some places; If there’s a bit of runoff room, the drivers will use it, and the edge of the track isn’t the edge of the track anymore. But I don’t want to see it become an issue enforced by judges and stewards. I don’t want to see it be like the barriers around a street circuit, or the Wall of Champions in Montreal, where taking one extra inch puts a driver out of the race. I just wish they could develop some sort of surface or kerbing that would punish the performance of a car driving over it, but not do any actual damage. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/190 "2017-10-23T07:56:47Z")
I think the difference in the Verstappen case is that he had all four wheels outside the track limits and did it in order to gain an advantage. Once you start to allow that then what is the difference between that and cutting a chicane entirely? The line (literally) has to be drawn somewhere. I think it was a harsh decision ( as Kimi seemed to squeeze him somewhat) but on balance probably correct. The timing of it is what changed it into a problem. Ten laps earlier and Max gets told to give the place back and he probably passes Kimi again but the decision couldn’t get made until after the race so we are where we are. As for punishing the kerb-cuttters? a good idea but the moment you start to physically interact with the car you run the risk of damage, accidents and safety cars. Unfortunately the best solution is probably the one we already have but I’d personally be pretty draconian about it at apply it at all times and preferably automate it as much as possible. If we have ball-tracking in tennis and cricket and goal-line technology in football then it is certainly possibly to do something similar for F1. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/191 "2017-10-23T08:10:19Z")
Given a trophy by Clinton and interviewed by bolt!? Am I the only one who thinks that was backwards? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/192 "2017-10-23T08:12:31Z")
Great race tho. I clapped at my tv during a recorded event for verstappen pass at the end and vocally boo’d when the penalty came down. I don’t normally talk to my tv. Certainly not during nonlive events. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/193 "2017-10-23T09:45:38Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think the difference in the Verstappen case is that he had all four wheels outside the track limits and did it in order to gain an advantage. Once you start to allow that then what is the difference between that and cutting a chicane entirely? The line (literally) has to be drawn somewhere. I think it was a harsh decision ( as Kimi seemed to squeeze him somewhat) but on balance probably correct. The timing of it is what changed it into a problem. Ten laps earlier and Max gets told to give the place back and he probably passes Kimi again but the decision couldn’t get made until after the race so we are where we are. Agreed, pretty much; Verstappen had all four wheels off, squeezed by Kimi, etc. I’d have to check, but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen drivers run wide on exiting a corner and put all four wheels over the line. And they gain an advantage by doing so; they may not be head-to-head with another car at the time, but they get a lower lap time by taking the line they do. > [@](#): > > As for punishing the kerb-cuttters? a good idea but the moment you start to physically interact with the car you run the risk of damage, accidents and safety cars. > Unfortunately the best solution is probably the one we already have but I’d personally be pretty draconian about it at apply it at all times and preferably automate it as much as possible. If we have ball-tracking in tennis and cricket and goal-line technology in football then it is certainly possibly to do something similar for F1. These are the best drivers in the world. The know the racing line and hit their marks within a few inches lap after lap. They cut the apexes and drift onto the runoffs because it’s the fastest line around the track. Redesign those and the drivers will learn the new fastest line. Maybe a shallow, curved trough at the edge of the track so the tire will rest on its shoulders and have no contact patch.[sup]\*[/sup] If there’s a risk of damage, so be it. - Need something else on the inside of corners, lest they do like rally drivers and hook a wheel in the gutter to pull them around the turn. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/194 "2017-10-23T13:05:22Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Agreed, pretty much; Verstappen had all four wheels off, squeezed by Kimi, etc. I’d have to check, but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen drivers run wide on exiting a corner and put all four wheels over the line. And they gain an advantage by doing so; they may not be head-to-head with another car at the time, but they get a lower lap time by taking the line they do. Hamilton talked a bit about it in a [post race interview with Sky](https://twitter.com/FiftyBuckss/status/922231651710664706). In case that link dies, he says that they’re in the drivers meetings talking about exceeding track limits on corner exit and Charlie says there’s no advantage, to which Lewis says “Yeah but we get on the power 10 meters earlier and just run wide.” Which is of course absolutely correct – the stewards have a dumb definition of gaining an advantage, but they have been fairly consistent in enforcing that definition. And it’s clear that drivers running 4 wheels off on corner exit have discussed it and been tacitly approved to do so by the FIA. The most egregious example, IMHO, was when Rosberg cut the chicane in Canada, immediately went full throttle, and eroded about 8 laps of effort Hamilton had put into closing the gap down to within DRS range. I think they took a lot of heat for that one, but it makes you wonder why drivers don’t regularly push the limits of the rules, cutting corners and going 4 off while in clean air just to gain time. I mean, so many passes now come down to pit strategy, imagine a well-timed undercut combined with cutting a whole bunch of corners on the out lap. You could gain whole seconds on your rival, and based on the FIA’s strange definition of gaining an advantage, you wouldn’t have. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/195 "2017-10-23T19:15:49Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Given a trophy by Clinton and interviewed by bolt!? Am I the only one who thinks that was backwards? I hadn’t given it much thought, but you’re right. Interviews by BC would have been great! > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I thought Vettel’s pass of Bottas, around the outside in Turn 1, was one of the best I’ve seen in ages. > […] Yes, a great pass. And he even kept 2 wheels within the painted lines. Concerning MV’s penalty: Kimi was attempting to close the door and so he brought his car all the way inside, to the painted line. Max saw that KR was closing the door and decided to pass anyway. The only way for MV to get around KR was to turn inside him -off the track- to make the pass. I think this was different than just running wide; he deliberately went off-track to get around Kimi. That’s why the stewards viewed that _line violation_ differently. Max was kind-of a prick when he pushed VB off the track during that pass a few laps earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/196 "2017-10-23T21:21:01Z")
Yes, it wasn’t that he went off-track but that he gained an advantage by so doing. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/197 "2017-10-23T21:23:12Z")
Drivers frequently get penalized for running off track to gain an advantage. They never get penalized for running too far to the _inside_ of a corner, especially in a spot where the line they’ve taken is slower than the on-track line. The track limits at Austin are especially nominal; not a single lap was donked because the driver ran wide, even if they were four wheels and three feet across. > [@Gatopescado](#): > > That pre-race nonsense was fairly embarrassing. My wife and I were cringing while we watched it. However, we also correctly predicted that Ricciardo and Hamilton would love it while everyone else just looked kind of bemused. Whichever useless PR flunky came up with the list of nicknames for Buffer should be fired yesterday. I mean, at least half of them were completely made up. The part where Buxton did a one-line interview with a few of the drivers as they walked out, and while Michael Buffer was already talking about the next guy, was especially weird. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I thought Vettel’s pass of Bottas, around the outside in Turn 1, was one of the best I’ve seen in ages. It was pretty spectacular, but it was mostly lucky. Stoffel ran way off the track trying to stay out of Vettel’s way, though he had no obligation to (since he’d already adjusted his line well to the outside to allow Bottas through). Had it been almost any other back-marker, Vettel would simply have run into the back of him. More importantly, Bottas took a sensible inside line to pass Vandoorne, but Vettel’s stupid one allowed him to gain the advantage on corner exit. Vettel would have been 100% at fault for causing the accident (that would have happened but for Vandoorne’s impressive peripheral awareness). Which is not to say I blame him; with the championship hanging by a thread, it made perfect sense for him to take chances. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/198 "2017-10-23T22:44:10Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > That pre-race nonsense was fairly embarrassing. And, yeah, **snfaulkner** is absolutely right about Buxton’s inane rambling. He’s especially bad today. I almost never watch the pre-race show. I just skim through qualifying and watch the race itself. Maybe that’s why Will hasn’t bothered me as much. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/199 "2017-10-23T22:51:23Z")
Loved the track - so did Hamilton 🙂 The onboard images are just so excellent now. I swear I was feeling G-force on that twisty section … ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/200 "2017-10-24T03:14:53Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I almost never watch the pre-race show. I just skim through qualifying and watch the race itself. Maybe that’s why Will hasn’t bothered me as much. I used to watch every minute of F1 coverage I could get. But nowadays, I’m fast-forwarding or outright deleting it, unless it is Q or the race. And even then, I sometimes hit “Mute”. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028/201 "2017-10-24T03:19:06Z")
Usually P1 and P3 are available on NBCsports app without commentary. It’s just the world feed and all you hear are the cars. It’s great! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-2017/778028.md?page=11)