# Formula 1 Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** racing-auto-boat\ **Created:** [July 6, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544 "2020-07-06T22:39:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/461 "2021-12-05T20:15:58Z")
No they were clearly going away from him and Lewis could have passed him easily. Although Max would have moved heaven and earth to keep Lewis behind him including breaking the rules by the look of it. I thought Max was completely out of order at points today but he was also brilliant in the restart. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/462 "2021-12-05T20:19:53Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > I thought Max was completely out of order at points today… Possibly, but he was penalized by giving places back to Hamilton twice, and an extra 5 seconds. Hamilton ran into Verstappen and forced him off the track later, and got a severe finger wagging. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/463 "2021-12-05T20:21:26Z")
Christ, what a shit-show that was. No further comment. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/464 "2021-12-05T20:27:20Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Hamilton ran into Verstappen and forced him off the track later I don’t think Lewis forced Max off the track at any point but so much happened in that race it’s possible I’ve forgotten it. The collision looks like Max was trying to give the place back before the DRS line but it was a weird place to slow down. I don’t believe for a second that Lewis deliberately hit Max because a DNF would have been fatal to his world title chances. Both going out would virtually hand Max the title and Lewis was clearly trying to avoid a collision all day with that in mind. Max didn’t have to worry about that. No idea where the 5 sec penalty came from. Looks like they gave it to him for overtaking off the track but Max never actually gave the place back although he did try! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/465 "2021-12-05T20:49:10Z")
Hamilton ran Verstappen wide at one of the hairpins late in the race, before pulling away to a large gap at the end. I heard him get warned over the radio. As you say, so much happened that it was easy to miss that. I don’t believe Lewis hit Max deliberately, but does that matter in terms of a penalty. I don’t know that any of Max’s infractions were exactly deliberate, either. Race aggressively, but not too aggressively. I’m still watching the post-race, and they reminded me of one restart when Hamilton left a long gap behind Verstappen, cooling Verstappen’s tires while he was stopped on the grid. But maybe the rule against that only applies to the formation lap at the very start of the race. Both drivers pushed the rules. And I thought Verstappen gave first place back to Hamilton after the collision between them. He let him through just before the DRS line, and immediately re-attacked and took the lead back. Hamilton passed Verstappen shortly after that; don’t know if Max let him by that time. Just saw an interview with Hamilton and he was still saying Verstappen brake-checked him. In the replays, it didn’t sound like Verstappen used the brakes. Wasn’t there an incident at Baku a few years ago where Vettel (I think) ran into Hamilton on a restart when Hamilton didn’t accelerate when expected? I think Vettel accused Hamilton of brake checking, but Hamilton denied it and I think the data backed him up. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/466 "2021-12-05T20:53:04Z")
Yeah I reckon the collision was a complete misunderstanding and possibly both drivers not wanting to be in the lead before the DRS line. The first Lewis overtake on the first restart was really poor by Max. Max went off the track, rejoined unsafely and then drove back across the racing line in front of Lewis. Totally indefensible. Max is just doing what champions do though. I remember Schumacher taking out Damon Hill (his closest rival) in 1994 and winning the championship. Schumacher was apparently convinced that it was Hill’s fault and had to be shown the video before he changed his mind. See also Senna and Prost. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/467 "2021-12-05T21:04:10Z")
Speaking of senna/prost, all max has to do to be champ is take lewis out next race. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/468 "2021-12-05T21:43:07Z")
Yes but a precedent was finally set in 1997 when Schumacher clearly and deliberately took out Jacques Villeneuve on the final race to win the championship, and was subsequently disqualified from the whole season. So if Max is going to do it, he needs to be clever about it. The classic brake late and see what happens manoeuvre that Max is fond off might well be okay. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/469 "2021-12-05T21:47:55Z")
I was going to say ‘shit show’, but was beat to it. What an awful track! It will have to be re-designed before next season, surely? And I’ve been staying pretty neutral as far as the Max/Lewis thing, mostly because I think it’s just too ‘easy’ to be a fan of either. But I think I’ve seen enough of Max to have decided I’m in team ABV. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/470 "2021-12-05T21:55:11Z")
Awful track? I think it’s an awesome track! Of course i like fast flowing tracks that are great for qualifying. Which isn’t necessarily a good track for racing. But even still it exceeded my expectations. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/471 "2021-12-05T21:56:09Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > I’m in team ABV. Also…team Alcohol By Volume? If so, yes. Me too. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/472 "2021-12-05T21:58:57Z")
Just in the sense that due to its design, it produced 2 red flags, and I lost count of how many safety and virtual safety cars. It’s quite a fast and amazing to watch, as you say…until the constant stops and slow-downs which are less than optimal. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/473 "2021-12-05T21:59:37Z")
Anyone But Verstappen 😜 But yes, the other thing too. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/474 "2021-12-05T22:02:41Z")
Fair enough. It also sent two f2 drivers to hospital. Which is…suboptimal. but holy shit are those onboard shots crazy fast! ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/475 "2021-12-05T22:07:42Z")
Tootally. Seriously almost too hard to watch, walls everywhere. On Max’s last qualifying lap I’m pretty sure I said something along the lines of “Holy Shit” out loud, enough that my wife came to check what was up. I’m just really glad that the last big incident wasn’t worse. Someone could easily have plowed in to the side of Perez. The camera shot as it happened from the end of the straight was pretty scary. I really thought it was going to be worse and I think we’re lucky it only took 3 cars out. I’ve nothing against a little dust-up now and then where everyone walks away and it makes the race more exciting. Today was a bit much, tho. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/476 "2021-12-05T22:10:35Z")
Also, a bit gutted for Ocon. It was fun to pull for him after he got out front. It was inevitable that Bottas would finish him off eventually and he held up longer than I expected. To lose the place in the final corner! ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/477 "2021-12-05T22:38:35Z")
Verstappen’s last qualy lap was magic all the way up until it wasn’t. Ok, maybe not that little squiggle on turn 2. But otherwise, damn. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/478 "2021-12-05T22:39:31Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Hamilton ran Verstappen wide at one of the hairpins late in the race, before pulling away to a large gap at the end. By the precedent established at Interlagos that is perfectly fine. As or the rest of it? Well I think it simply goes to confirm what sort of driver Max is. Fast but unfair. Too much shithousery for me to ever warm to him. I’m sure he’s comfortable with such a reputation. He may win the championship this year but he’ll forever have a huge asterix by his name in the way that Hamilton never has. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/479 "2021-12-05T23:06:33Z")
Max needs a race ban. He runs Hamilton off the track _every_ time he is about to be overtaken. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-1-thread/914544/480 "2021-12-05T23:22:49Z")
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