# Formula One nonsense, ramblings....
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-nonsense-ramblings/160381
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [March 10, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-nonsense-ramblings/160381 "2003-03-10T19:50:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 10
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-nonsense-ramblings/160381/21 "2003-03-13T18:47:23Z")
**Boo Boo Foo** , you do have a copy of Grand Prix Legends on your computer, don’t you?
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### Author:  [@Tuco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuco)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-nonsense-ramblings/160381/22 "2003-03-13T19:32:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by elf6c \*
> \*\*Even the epic 24 hour events are nearly dead.
>
> Sad to say, the most competitive racing is NASCAR in the US, and Rallycar in Europe. Love them rallycars. . . .
> \*\*
Uhh, Le Mans is till going strong (all be it with just bizaare ‘prototype’ cars winning, but it’s nice to see the 911s, Bentleys, TVRs, Elises, etc. against each other).
‘Rallycar in Europe’? It’s called the **World** Rally Championship for a reason 😛
If you want decent motor racing, try and catch some cheaper types on TV; I can reccomend the British GT series (Vipers, Porsches, TVR Tuscans, Ultimas, Lotus’, etc) and the British Touring Car Championship.
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### Author:  [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-nonsense-ramblings/160381/23 "2003-03-13T22:18:47Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Robot Arm \*
> \*\ ***Boo Boo Foo** , you do have a copy of Grand Prix Legends on your computer, don’t you? \*\*
No I don’t actually! Is it pretty good is it? 🙂
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### Author:  [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-nonsense-ramblings/160381/24 "2003-03-13T22:44:05Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \*
> \*\*In fairness, those glory years when cars left the track also had a couple of drivers killed every year - and that was considered normal, too. That’s in the past as well, and not only by coincidence. \*\*
No doubts about that **Elvis** , you’re absolutely right.
But there were _some_ tracks like the old Silverstone layout, and the Osterreichring and Spa for example where you could leave the track at mega high speeds and tavel 400 meters on grass, and THEN, still catch it and get back on the track. Ultimately, they are the best tracks of all. It allows a driver to really push the envelope, and actually go over the limit, and still return - albeit a few places down.
Unfortunately, tracks like Spa were at the bottom end of the ladder in terms of revenue. And a good deal of the track was public land too, which meant that it was free to get in on some parts of the open forest sections. And THAT totally went against the grain of what Bernie Ecclestone is on about these days.
It’s a darn, darn shame for mine. The persuit of superior safety and better spectator access has proven to be mutually exclusive to what makes a truly classical Grand Prix. That’s my opinion of course but I don’t think I’m alone…
Hey, how’s about we start a thread called “The greatest Grand Prix races of all time?” I reckon I’ve got some good posts up my sleeve…
Hows about we start with Villeneuve’s memorable battle with Alan Jones in the 1981 Monaco race? Or Rene Arnoux in the final laps of the French Grand Prix in 1979 at Dijon? Side by side with his team mate for 3 laps thru every corner - neither one backing off. Excellent stuff…
Watkin’s Glen had some awesome Grands Prix too.
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-nonsense-ramblings/160381/25 "2003-03-13T22:50:20Z")
It’s fantastic. It’s based on the 1967 Formula 1 season, so the cars are three-litre, rear engined, but that was just before wings (and advertising) started sprouting from them. That was the first year for the Lotus 49 (and its Cosworth DFV engine), and Dan Gurney’s Eagle. You can race the Nurburgring, the full course at Spa, or Monza without any chicanes.
The game came out about four years ago. I don’t think anyone’s surpassed the accuracy of its physics model yet. (It didn’t sell terribly well, so no one’s felt the need to surpass it.) I don’t know where you’d find a copy these days, but there are some hardcore fans (and lots of homemade enhancements) on the web.
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### Author:  [@Ender\_Will](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ender_Will)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-nonsense-ramblings/160381/26 "2003-03-14T07:34:11Z")
**Boo Boo Foo** your post about Spa was one of the best pieces I have ever read about racing. I cannot commend you highly enough.
**Elf6c** I threw in the thing about each driver doing his best without really thinking about it much. You’re dead on about the blatant lead-swapping Ferrari had going on last year. Of course, that’s disallowed this season, let’s see if it actually stops…
I’m kind of out of my element here, as last season was the first one I really followed. Sounds like I’m missing out on all the great, classic circuits, drivers and grands prix.
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### Author:  [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2003, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-nonsense-ramblings/160381/27 "2003-03-14T10:12:46Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Ender\_Will \*
> \*\*Boo Boo Foo your post about Spa was one of the best pieces I have ever read about racing. I cannot commend you highly enough.
> \*\*
Thank you kind sir! (Assuming I shouldn’t address you as “Madam” :D)
Here’s some nice warm karma headed your way.
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### Author:  [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-nonsense-ramblings/160381/28 "2003-03-14T13:26:59Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Tuco \*
> \*\*Uhh, Le Mans is till going strong (all be it with just bizaare ‘prototype’ cars winning, but it’s nice to see the 911s, Bentleys, TVRs, Elises, etc. against each other).
> ‘Rallycar in Europe’? It’s called the **World** Rally Championship for a reason 😛
>
> If you want decent motor racing, try and catch some cheaper types on TV; I can reccomend the British GT series (Vipers, Porsches, TVR Tuscans, Ultimas, Lotus’, etc) and the British Touring Car Championship. \*\*
Thanks **Tuco** I just blanked on the name. I catch a few races on Speedvision and they are a barrel of monkeys to watch.
I disagree on Le Mans, it is no where near as prominent as it used to be. They still run it, but its impact is much lower now, which is sad because of its history and the fact that it is a frickin’ cool race. Almost as bad as what has happened to the Indy 500 (stupid Tony George grumble, grumble, grumble . . . )
Mmmmmm, TVR’s . . . . .
😃
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### Author:  [@finn1911](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finn1911)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-nonsense-ramblings/160381/29 "2003-03-14T13:53:17Z")
I think you’ve been a bid hard on Kimi. Ya, he’s not terribly charismatic, but he’s still got personality. IHis engish is, yes, very bad… but if you read between the lines (or listen between the broken english, as the case may be) he knows exactly what’s going on and doesn’t miss a thing. He does have a sense of humor too, though it doesn’t show often. He’s extermely calm, cool and collected all the time.
And… he ran Michael wide… how many others have the balls to do that?
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### Author:  [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-nonsense-ramblings/160381/30 "2003-03-14T22:43:59Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by elf6c \*
> \*\*Thanks **Tuco** I just blanked on the name. I catch a few races on Speedvision and they are a barrel of monkeys to watch.
>
> I disagree on Le Mans, it is no where near as prominent as it used to be. They still run it, but its impact is much lower now, which is sad because of its history and the fact that it is a frickin’ cool race. Almost as bad as what has happened to the Indy 500 (stupid Tony George grumble, grumble, grumble . . . )
>
> Mmmmmm, TVR’s . . . . .
>
> 😃 \*\*
Yes, at the risk of a slight hi-jack, but it will at least remain motor racing based - I have to say this… as an Aussie who ALSO grew up on a staple diet of Indy 500 watching, it really made me sad to watch that aspect of American modern history get rail roaded the way it did… I appreciate the George family owned the Indianapolis track, and as such, Tony felt justified in his actions - nonetheless, not EVERY business decision in sport is ALWAYS 100% best for a given sport - as evidenced by some of Formula One’s recent business decisions too…
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by elf6c \*
> \*\*I disagree on Le Mans, it is no where near as prominent as it used to be. They still run it, but its impact is much lower now, which is sad because of its history and the fact that it is a frickin’ cool race. \*\*
My suggestion for “saving” Le Mans is to introduce a rule where the only cars (which qualify to enter) must have sold AT LEAST 100,000 units world wide… and THEN… you’re allowed to modify various parts under the rules… but you also HAVE to use the engine block which is offered in the car which sold 100,000 units…
And why do I suggest this? Well, any manufacturer could make a light car for example which sells 100,000 units which has a 1.6 litre engine in it. But the manufacturer might then choose to offer a special “in house version” with say, a 4 litre V8 in it. Even though the “special” might not ever see the street, it could still qualify for the race - and THAT would be wrong… and believe me, those sort of “loop holes in the homologation rules” have been exploited since time immemorium.
Nope… any car which sold 100,000 units, and the engine block which sold it… well that car should qualify for Le Mans, and THEN, you can do whatever you want to the engine and suspension… along with a roll cage obviously…
Such a version of Le Mans would really work for me… it would take Le Mans back to being about road cars - as averse to specially designed “prototypes”. And yes, there’s no denying the “prototypes” are awesome, awesomely impressive engineering - but they kinda lost their relevance I think when Porsche started dominating the category in the mid 70’s.
Bring back the “all bets are off” hotted up road cars I say. That’s the way to bring back some prestige to the race…
Obviously, a 100,000 unit street car is an exercise in compromise - but THAT is my point you see - if a manufacturer wished to win Le Mans, they would need to take that compromise and fashion it into something competitive - which to me, in 2003, is far more challenging that designing a dedicated race car… after all… the research has been out there for a long time now on how to build a Le Mans winning car… my proposal makes the challenge of doing so far, far harder.
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