# Formula One: The 2009 Championship. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 22, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312 "2009-03-22T03:11:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/121 "2009-05-10T22:34:35Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Which brings me to my same question: How the hell does Red Bull funnel so much money into the various sports sponserships they got out there in the wind? That shit must not cost anything to produce! I mean, these Jokers sponser freakin’ aerobatic competitions! Those costs must make F1 look positively “reasonable”. > > Just random thought, waiting for the race to start… They’re quite keen to sponsor aeroplanes, Red Bull gives you wings after all. I wouldn’t think the Red Bull Air Races would cost anything like the F1 though. The aircraft in the air races are stock standard, off-the-shelf machines that can be bought for a few hundred thousand dollars. There are no research or development costs and there are only 6 to 8 events each year. ---
**Author:** ![Albrecht\_Durer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ccd318/32.png) [@Albrecht\_Durer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Albrecht_Durer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/122 "2009-05-11T00:48:26Z")
I didn’t find the Spanish Grand Prix all that exciting/entertaining. I suppose the most entertaining part was Massa having to essentially give up a place with three or four laps to go because they didn’t put enough gas in his car. I make that mistake from time to time, not putting enough gas into my Saturn before a long trip. But in my defense I’m not a professional race team with millions of dollars. And I drive a Saturn, which noticeably lacks a prancing pony logo. And I was a bit displeased by Brawn’s decision to favor Button; at least, that’s my take on it. I do think they employed some sort of team order to put Button in the lead. At the press conference after the race, it became clear that Barrichello had a two-stop strategy and Button had a three-stop, which was changed when Barrichello took the lead. I just feel so bad for Barrichello. Team orders were banned because Ferrari forced him to cede a first place finish to Michael Schumacher in 2003 or 2004, I think it was. Barrichello, who is just as good as Button this year, deserved the win today. I am 100% rooting for Button this year, but I feel that Barrichello deserved to win in Spain. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/123 "2009-05-11T19:32:47Z")
Hi guys, glad to see the thread’s still alive. I was in Fla for a spell and beyond being rather busy I had no access to SpeedTV so I was reduced to reading bits and pieces on the 'net. Tried streaming the Bahrain race and got frustrated as it was quite jerky and in _Chinese_, which is Greek to me. Anyway, I’ve been catching up for the past three, four days and watched the Barcelona qualies and race over the weekend. Random observations: 1-Most improved car for the European leg has to be the Ferrari as they appear to have moved all the way into – arguably of course, and based on this weekend alone – third place in terms of pure pace if certainly not reliability. OTOH, “inept” wouldn’t even begin to describe their race strategies. Massa’s crawl to the finish line is only the nth example this season alone. Lots of house cleaning to be done over the silly season at Maranello. 2-By the looks of it the Brawns, while obviously still in front, have not developed their car as much as many anticipated. Which, of course, I think is a _good_ thing, for if they had we might as well have called it a Season. Never mind if FIA’s absurd medal system had been in place – consider that last years contenders had five and six wins respectively and Jason already has _four_. 3-I _hate_ the Kers gimmick as it’s doing the exact opposite in the few cars that still run them than it was supposed to do – it simply makes overtaking them that much harder even if you have a clearly faster car, i.e. Vettel’s RB stuck all race long behind Massa’s KERS. Of course, I also thought RB should have short-stopped him in order to get past by way strategy, but again, I just don’t see the point of running it as an “enhancement to racing.” 3-Barcelona did what Barcelona always does. It’s a testing circuit in the off-season and remains one even as an official race. In that sense I’d say that this year’s edition was ever so slightly more entertaining. 4-[**RUBENS BARRICHELLO has threatened to quit Brawn if he discovers they favour Jenson Button.**](http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/motorsport/article2422718.ece). Can’t say that I’d blame if he did. Thought he was royally screwed with the three-stopper. 4-Bias aside, I honestly think that Alonso’s more than likely the best at extracting the very last drop of usefulness from the equipment that he’s given. That he was able to beat the Toyota’s in that tub speaks volumes about his ability. I think the never-ending rumors of his move to Ferrari are more than likely to come true for 2010. 5-McLaren might as well forget about this season and start R&D for next year’s. It just not going to happen this season, that much is clear. 6-Bring on [Monaco](http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail/monaco_810/circuit_diagram.html), for as much as many fans like to label it “boring” and a “procession” it remains, to me anyway, the most iconic race in the calendar. And I love watching it. Forza F1! ---
**Author:** ![History\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b19c9b/32.png) [@History\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/History_Geek)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/124 "2009-05-12T16:15:58Z")
If I remember the start of the race correctly, Massa used his KERS to overtake Vettel into the first corner. So KERS gave him the chance to overtake a faster car, and then to hold the faster car off defending that spot. Until he ran out of gas. When all the cars have KERS next year, I think it will be used offensively more often. This year it’s more of an equalizer between the faster cars and the slower cars, better used to hold a position. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/125 "2009-05-12T19:09:13Z")
How come Massa kept his place when he ran out of fuel and didn’t finish? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/126 "2009-05-12T22:23:20Z")
Massa didn’t run out of fuel, quite. He just had to slow right down a few laps from the end (four, I think - he was told he had to save about a lap’s fuel at that point) to avoid running out of fuel and could no longer fight Vettel for 4th. He had to slow so much that he lost 5th place to Alonso and nearly conceded 6th as well. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/127 "2009-05-12T23:04:50Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > Massa didn’t run out of fuel, quite. I distinctly remember his car being pushed by marshals. Maybe that was the wind-down lap? ---
**Author:** ![MJinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@MJinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJinks)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/128 "2009-05-13T00:13:26Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I distinctly remember his car being pushed by marshals. Maybe that was the wind-down lap? Yeah, it was. I was wondering if there was a penalty for not getting it back for weighing. Guess not. ---
**Author:** ![History\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b19c9b/32.png) [@History\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/History_Geek)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/129 "2009-05-13T20:53:09Z")
I just heard on BBC News Hour that Renault joined Ferrari in calling quits if budget caps are on for 2010. I think Toyota is on board that train too. I guess that leaves McLaren and BMW the only factory teams not crying about budget capping. So if the factory teams were to boycott the championship next year, would you watch? I think I would. Since this is my first F1 season, I’m not invested in any of the “old guard” teams. Plus there is at least one, possibly two, US-based teams coming in 2010. Of course, if Brawn were to boycott, I’d be right out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Albrecht\_Durer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ccd318/32.png) [@Albrecht\_Durer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Albrecht_Durer)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/130 "2009-05-13T23:24:07Z")
> [@History\_Geek](#): > > I just heard on BBC News Hour that Renault joined Ferrari in calling quits if budget caps are on for 2010. I think Toyota is on board that train too. I guess that leaves McLaren and BMW the only factory teams not crying about budget capping. So if the factory teams were to boycott the championship next year, would you watch? I think I would. Since this is my first F1 season, I’m not invested in any of the “old guard” teams. Plus there is at least one, possibly two, US-based teams coming in 2010. > > Of course, if Brawn were to boycott, I’d be right out. 🙂 I’m rather shocked the whole situation is coming to such dire loggerheads. I did agree with Mosley (I think it was Mosley) that F1 could survive without Ferrari, but I don’t think they could survive without Ferrari, Renault, Toyota and Red Bull. That would be a serious blow. While I do like the two-tiered idea, I think it’s time to scrap it. I don’t know if any of the four teams saying they would quit will actually follow through with the threat, but it’s certainly sobering to see how forceful they’re being in their opposition. So, I think, (with my mere months of Formula 1 watching history) that the two-tiered, 40 million pound cap is (or should be) dead. What do you guys think a fair compromise should be? I say just raise the cap by 50% or 100% and apply it to everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/131 "2009-05-14T00:00:49Z")
Eh, this sort of conflab is as old as the hills. Mosley set out a stall he knew the big guys wouldn’t accept; they exhibit typical outrage and threaten to take their ball home, and thus the first salvoes of the classical F1 rules debate are fired. Much will be made of it in the papers, there’ll be threats to start a constructor-led rival series, talk of getting in replacement teams from god knows where, reams of opinion articles will be written, but at no point will you ever hear what each side actually thinks or is aiming towards. I’ll bet £100 Ferrari will line up in 2010, as will most if not all of the current bunch. Most likely it’ll be with some form of reduced budget agreement in place, but neither as swingeing as that proposed, nor with a two-tier system in effect. Bet the house on it. ---
**Author:** ![caligulashorse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@caligulashorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulashorse)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/132 "2009-05-14T00:39:39Z")
> [@History\_Geek](#): > > I just heard on BBC News Hour that Renault joined Ferrari in calling quits if budget caps are on for 2010. I think Toyota is on board that train too. I guess that leaves McLaren and BMW the only factory teams not crying about budget capping. So if the factory teams were to boycott the championship next year, would you watch? I think I would. Since this is my first F1 season, I’m not invested in any of the “old guard” teams. Plus there is at least one, possibly two, US-based teams coming in 2010. > > Of course, if Brawn were to boycott, I’d be right out. 🙂 Neither Ferarri nor Renault EVER said they were going to quit. Stop making crap up. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/133 "2009-05-14T02:06:13Z")
> [@caligulashorse](#): > > Neither Ferarri nor Renault EVER said they were going to quit. Stop making crap up. Ferrari: [http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/5/9348.html](http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/5/9348.html) > [@](#): > > The Board considers that if this is the regulatory framework for Formula One in the future, then the reasons underlying Ferrari’s uninterrupted participation in the World Championship over the last 60 years - the only constructor to have taken part ever since its inception in 1950 - would come to a close. Renault: [http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/5/9351.html](http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/5/9351.html) : > [@](#): > > ING Renault F1 Team Managing Director, Flavio Briatore, commented: “Our aim is to reduce costs while maintaining the high standards that make Formula One one of the most prestigious brands on the market. We want to achieve this in a coordinated manner with the regulatory and commercial bodies, and we refuse to accept unilateral governance handed out by the FIA. **If the decisions announced by the World Council on the 29th of April 2009 are not revised, we have no choice but to withdraw from the FIA Formula One World Championship at the end of 2009.** ” ---
**Author:** ![caligulashorse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@caligulashorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulashorse)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/134 "2009-05-14T02:45:50Z")
Flavio has no executive powers at renault, hence his words mean nothing. Renault and Ferrari have both played the whole “we might” routine. Very, very differen’t predicates. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/135 "2009-05-14T03:10:21Z")
Okay, I guess you didn’t read the whole article. It starts like this: > [@](#): > > The Renault Formula One team and parent company Renault issued the following statement on Wednesday: > > The decision of the Federation International de l’Automobile (FIA) to introduce two sets of Formula One technical regulations for the 2010 Formula One season has caused the Renault Group to reconsider its entry in next year’s FIA Formula One World Championship. You can see the Renault press release here: [http://www.ing-renaultf1.com/en/\_2009/team/index.php#/team/newsdesk/communiques/](http://www.ing-renaultf1.com/en/_2009/team/index.php#/team/newsdesk/communiques/) (unfortunately it is a flash site and I can’t see how to link to a specific press release) It contains this: > [@](#): > > President of the ING Renault F1 Team, Bernard Rey, commented: “Renault has always considered Formula One as the pinnacle of motor sport and the perfect stage to demonstrate technical excellence. We remain committed to the sport, however we cannot be involved in a championship operating with different sets of rules, and if such rules are put into effect, we will be forced to pull out at the end of this season.” My point is, nobody is making shit up. ---
**Author:** ![caligulashorse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@caligulashorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulashorse)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/136 "2009-05-14T03:57:50Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > Okay, I guess you didn’t read the whole article. It starts like this: > My point is, nobody is making shit up. Nope. I didn’t. I just saw Briatore’s mug and figured it wasn’t worth my time. Heh. Anyway, looks like that’s correct in regards to Renault, but not to Ferrari, so yes, it is being made up. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/137 "2009-05-14T07:35:48Z")
What on earth? Both teams have come out publicly and threatened to quit. I agree there’s no realistic prospect of them doing so, but to have a go at other posters for repeating the simple fact of the threat is just bizarre. > [@](#): > > Renault and Ferrari have both played the whole “we might” routine. Yeah. In other words, they have threatened. ---
**Author:** ![caligulashorse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@caligulashorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulashorse)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/138 "2009-05-14T08:16:50Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > What on earth? Both teams have come out publicly and threatened to quit. I agree there’s no realistic prospect of them doing so, but to have a go at other posters for repeating the simple fact of the threat is just bizarre. I’m getting tired of repeating myself: saying you _ **might** _ do something is different than saying you _ **will** _ do something. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/139 "2009-05-14T08:35:57Z")
Perhaps you should’ve read the post you responded to, then (bolding mine): > [@History Geek](#): > > I just heard on BBC News Hour that Renault joined Ferrari in calling quits **if budget caps are on for 2010.** Note the conditional? No-one here has ever said it was a certainty. ---
**Author:** ![caligulashorse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@caligulashorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulashorse)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312/140 "2009-05-14T08:41:50Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > Perhaps you should’ve read the post you responded to, then (bolding mine): > Note the conditional? No-one here has ever said it was a certainty. Jebus balls. You fail basic English comprehension. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/formula-one-the-2009-championship/490312.md?page=8)