# Fornicate the Democrats for voting down the public option **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 29, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028 "2009-09-29T20:51:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/21 "2009-09-30T02:47:06Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Democrat Senators actually listening to their constituents? My God, whatever next! You mean their constituents who favor a public option by about [two to one](http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/09/25/us/politics/25pollgrx.html)? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/22 "2009-09-30T03:39:56Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Och, tis certain cold in Glasgow. But at least they have UHC there. And if you lose your job, you aren’t offered the “choice” of continuing your insurance if you can somehow give them all your unemployment benefits, and then some, and still manage to eat. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/23 "2009-09-30T04:29:33Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I misunderstood you? You really weren’t claiming that the people who voted against the Rockefeller amendment weren’t actual Democrats? No. He’s claiming they won’t be Democrats very long. Or at least not elected Democrats. There will be primaries. Oh, there will… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/24 "2009-09-30T04:55:12Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > No. He’s claiming they won’t be Democrats very long. Or at least not elected Democrats. > > There will be primaries. Oh, there will… Ok, so then you manage to topple the blue dogs in the primaries and liberal candidates now get to run in their place. I’m sure the liberal alternative to Max Baucus will beat the pants off of his Republican competitor in a state as leftist as Montana. Well, Baucus can hang out with Wayne Gilchrest, at least. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/25 "2009-09-30T06:27:21Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > You mean their constituents who favor a public option by about [two to one](http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/09/25/us/politics/25pollgrx.html)? Not according to [Rasmussen](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform), the site with the best tracking record for polling. 52% against the health plan. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/26 "2009-09-30T12:00:28Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Not according to [Rasmussen](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform), the site with the best tracking record for polling. 52% against the health plan. You mean Rassmussen, the site with a known bias toward the Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/27 "2009-09-30T12:12:02Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You did read the OP that blamed Democrats, right? Scroll up to the top. I’ll wait. Yes, I did. And then I read: > [@](#): > > No actual Democrat voted against Rockefeller’s ammendment. > Only Republicans and senators who lie about their actual political affiliation voted against it. My comment was more in response to that sentiment than to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/28 "2009-09-30T14:58:03Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Not according to [Rasmussen](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform), the site with the best tracking record for polling. 52% against the health plan. I note, and I feel very **Bricker** -esque here, that the polls were asking two very different questions: The NYT/CBS poll does in fact cite that respondents are approximately 2-to-1 in favor of a public option similar to medicare, that competes with private insurance companies. It also says that the majority don’t think either major party has adequately explained their plans for health care. The Rasmussen poll doesn’t get into details, if you look at the questions–it merely asks about “the health care plan”, which 52% are against. I suspect the difference in polling numbers is a factor of several things: 1. People who are for a public option but not confident in the ability of the current government to implement it. 2. People who are for a public option and do not believe “the current health care plan” encompasses one. 3. People who are (at least according to the NYT/CBS poll, admittedly) confused about the plan currently floating before Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/29 "2009-09-30T14:59:19Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Not according to [Rasmussen](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform), the site with the best tracking record for polling. 52% against the health plan. Nice link. Shame it doesn’t have anything to do with the discussion. ETA: Crap! Beaten to it by **Zeriel.** ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/30 "2009-09-30T15:11:12Z")
I should note my reply, potentially controversially, assumes both pollsters are basically accurate. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/31 "2009-09-30T15:13:29Z")
It’s at moments like these that I realize why the Republicans, in spite of everything, still manage to win elections. They know how to fight and fight dirty and they have the skill and most importantly the organization to get what they want. The Democrats need someone like Lyndon Johnson. Regardless of what you might think of him, he knew how to get things done in the Senate and was a master at keeping party members in line. ---
**Author:** ![DangerGnu\_Part\_danger\_all\_gnu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9c0ed/32.png) [@DangerGnu\_Part\_danger\_all\_gnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DangerGnu_Part_danger_all_gnu)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/32 "2009-09-30T15:28:54Z")
Forget “public option” - That’s just more insurance, with all its wasteful overhead. And even forget “single payer” for the same reason. Just have the state treat people without any paperwork at all. Doctors are paid, not by the procedure, but by the hours they work, just like nurses and hospital office workers. Doctors are not magical healers, mystic witch doctors, but ordinary regular workers with a list of things to do. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/33 "2009-09-30T16:10:13Z")
> [@DangerGnu\_Part\_danger\_all\_gnu](#): > > Forget “public option” - That’s just more insurance, with all its wasteful overhead. And even forget “single payer” for the same reason. Just have the state treat people without any paperwork at all. Doctors are paid, not by the procedure, but by the hours they work, just like nurses and hospital office workers. Doctors are not magical healers, mystic witch doctors, but ordinary regular workers with a list of things to do. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/34 "2009-09-30T16:19:31Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Democrat Senators actually listening to their constituents? My God, whatever next! Like [Max Baucus?](http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2009/08/22/poll-montana-dems-want-public-option/) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/35 "2009-09-30T16:29:47Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Och, tis certain cold in Glasgow. And my porridge is not nearly sweet enough. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/36 "2009-09-30T16:36:01Z")
Baucus and the rest collect tons of money from the health care industry. They are just performing work for them. The plan will force those without coverage to buy it. That is a huge payoff. Insurance companies will gobble up even more money. Baucus is number one in health care donations. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/37 "2009-09-30T16:57:25Z")
> [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](#): > > So basically, we’re not reforming health care after all. Not over yet. The Finance Committee (which is where the votes we are talking about happened) is arguably the most conservative of committees including the ConservaDems. Probably bluster but Tom Harkin who chairs the HELP Committee [claims he can get a public option in](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/60683-harkin-says-he-has-the-votes-to-pass-public-option-bill). Personally I dunno the reality of that not to mention what happens when (if) they get to reconciliation with the House. Anyway, not over yet (I hope). ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/38 "2009-09-30T21:18:35Z")
[MoveOn Unleashes Ads Hitting Dem Senators Who Voted Against Public Option](http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/moveon-unleashes-ads-hitting-dem-senators-who-voted-against-public-option/) If these senators can’t conveniently die of some horribly painful disease, they need to be drummed out of office. Congratulations to MoveOn for starting the process. ---
**Author:** ![Alienhand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8edcca/32.png) [@Alienhand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alienhand)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/39 "2009-09-30T22:03:36Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > It’s at moments like these that I realize why the Republicans, in spite of everything, still manage to win elections. They know how to fight and fight dirty and they have the skill and most importantly the organization to get what they want. I wouldn’t call it organized but it was [fighting dirty](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-usmvYOPfco&feature=player_embedded) and kind of funny to see to a dem act like a pubbie. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028/40 "2009-09-30T22:19:46Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [MoveOn Unleashes Ads Hitting Dem Senators Who Voted Against Public Option](http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/moveon-unleashes-ads-hitting-dem-senators-who-voted-against-public-option/) > > If these senators can’t conveniently die of some horribly painful disease, they need to be drummed out of office. > Congratulations to MoveOn for starting the process. I’m dubious of the effectiveness of such ads. While better than nothing I suppose my hunch is (Dems and Repubs alike) are FAR more beholden to whatever special interest has them than their own constituents. I’d rather MoveOn took the 200K (or whatever it cost to produce/run these ads) and organize massive rallies. $40,000 should go a long way to do it in each state. Make it a big cookout/shindig. Parade people screwed over by their insurance company. You’ll get far more and wider coverage by the media than a few TV ads. IMO anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-democrats-for-voting-down-the-public-option/512028.md?page=3)