# Fornicate the French, Fornicate the Polanski supporters. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 28, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883 "2009-09-28T19:38:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/41 "2009-09-29T03:09:39Z")
A shitty childhood is not carte blanche to be a shitty adult. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/42 "2009-09-29T03:29:13Z")
> [@](#): > > But why is it so impossible to accept that these things- which happened just a few years before the rape and which were frequently in the news at the time (Squeaky Fromme is arrested- cue Manson/Tate footage; Leslie Van Houten is released for a new trial- cue Manson/Tate footage; major miniseries made about the murders- cue Manson/Tate footage, etc.) all following a life that had already been pretty horrible could contribute to a post traumatic disorder that would completely send somebody over the edge and turn them to drugs which work with the already wildly out of sync mental state to, if you’ll pardon the technical jargon, royally fuck up one’s sense of right and wrong? > Is it not conceivable that this man- who never did anything like this before to anyone’s knowledge and who has never done anything like it since- was crazed? Fortunately, the rule of law in this country isn’t based on random assumptions by random strangers as to the perpetrator’s possible mental competence. Polanski has never bothered to deny that he raped the girl. If he wants to argue mitigating circumstances that’s what the sentencing phase (ie - phase he ran out on) is for. At the time, he might even have gotten a sympathy verdict. Doesn’t mean he deserves one or that he’s some how more deserving of mercy than any of the other criminals you name. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/43 "2009-09-29T03:38:04Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > As for the the victim wanting it dropped – she’s not in charge of our justice system. Well actually she is, if she still lives here, as am I and every other taxpayer who lives in California. The justice system should serve the people, and if the people don’t want time and resources spent on thirty-year old cases in which most or all relevant witnesses are either dead or outside the state, and the victim wants it called off, then maybe it’s not worth the trouble. As I understand the case now, and correct me if I’m wrong, the plea arrangement was accepted by everyone, so, legally, the drugs are off the table. The charge pleaded to was not rape, but unlawful intercourse with a minor – > [@](#): > > \*\* > CPC Section 261.5. Unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor; Misdemeanor or felony violation; Civil penalties > \*\* > . > (a) Unlawful sexual intercourse is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished with a person who is not the spouse of the perpetrator, if the person is a minor. For the purposes of this section, a “minor” is a person under the age of 18 years and an “adult” is a person who is at least 18 years of age. > > (b) Any person who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor who is not more than three years older or three years younger than the perpetrator, is guilty of a misdemeanor. > > (c) Any person who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor who is more than three years younger than the perpetrator is guilty of either a misdemeanor or a felony, and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison. > > (d) Any person 21 years of age or older who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor who is under 16 years of age is guilty of either a misdemeanor or a felony, and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years. > > … (additional material follows on civil actions) Sorry to burst your bubbles, all you cowboy vigilantes, but it looks like the most he could get would be four years, unless they can reconsider all the original charges. I don’t think what he did can be condoned, but neither can every incident of criminal activity be prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/44 "2009-09-29T03:43:29Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Hey! Don’t you realize the Europeans populated the US? Can’t talk bad about the Europeans. They get all pissy. Nice crescendo of stupidity and prejudice you’ve got going there. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/45 "2009-09-29T03:46:44Z")
I am only pointing out how culturally advanced the Europeans are to us poor Americans. Just ask them. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/46 "2009-09-29T04:11:27Z")
How repulsive. I’d like to see some evidence that victims of concentration camps deal with their trauma by victimizing little girls. Sure I can have sympathy for the poor guy. I have sympathy for Charles Manson too who grew up bouncing from group home to juvie and back again and even into psychiatric hospitals at a time where the profession wasn’t nearly as advanced as it is today. But so what, what Manson and his acolytes did is disgusting. Every single rapist and murderer is worthy of sympathy. Every one of them is damaged goods. They all have some kind of emotional trauma or miswiring in the cabeza, but what does any of that matter? Poor Roman Polanski, yes, it’s sad, but he raped a little girl. I’m sorry for the girl he raped having to deal with all of this again. This crime was particularly heinous because it just won’t ever go away, she’s never able to move on. Her 15 minutes are having been raped by Roman Polanski. It sucks, it all sucks. But hey, lets look at the silver lining. Maybe one day Trent Reznor and Tori Amos will have hot steamy sex in her house and write the best albums of their careers over how much they hate each other for it. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/47 "2009-09-29T04:48:36Z")
> [@](#): > > As I understand the case now, and correct me if I’m wrong, the plea arrangement was accepted by everyone, so, legally, the drugs are off the table. The charge pleaded to was not rape, but unlawful intercourse with a minor – Well, that’s the bone of his contention. Apparently, plea deals worked out with the prosecution and attorney general are not binding on the judge. (I didn’t know this. Why would anyone take a deal if it could be tossed that easily?) So the original judge was, apparently, shooting his mouth off to people about how he thought the deal was an outrageous example of leniency towards degenerate celebrities and he planned to dump the DA’s sentencing scheme for his own, more harsh one. Polanski got wind of this and that’s why he decided to take matters into his own two feet. I can’t say I’m enthused about a judge tossing the government’s side of the deal after the defendant pleads guilty. But my lawyer friends say it’s SOP. So what do I know. A few years back, Polanski appealed saying that the original (now deceased) judge misled him and he should get a new trial. The appellate court said he might have a point but he couldn’t expect bupkis unless he resolved his fugitive status. It’s possible that, now that he’s no longer a fugitive, he might get an appellate ruling in his favor and be given a new trial. But that would meant that the original charges will be reinstated too, not the lesser charge he plead guilty too. If it’s a new trial, it’s back to square one for both sides. I suspect that, once the witness’ statement is read to the jury, he’ll find an even less sympathetic hearing this time around. But if the previous trial was wrong than he deserves to have that put right. ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/48 "2009-09-29T04:57:45Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Sorry to burst your bubbles, all you cowboy vigilantes, but it looks like the most he could get would be four years, unless they can reconsider all the original charges. I don’t think what he did can be condoned, but neither can every incident of criminal activity be prosecuted. This incident of criminal activity _was_ prosecuted. If the most Polanski is a measly 4 years maybe he should get his sorry ass back here and do his time. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/49 "2009-09-29T05:32:37Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Sorry to burst your bubbles, all you **cowboy vigilantes** , but it looks like the most he could get would be four years, unless they can reconsider all the original charges. Bolding mine. Wikipedia has a reasonable working definition of “vigilante”: > [@](#): > > A vigilante is someone who unlawfully punishes a criminal, or participates in a mob or conspiracy to mete out unlawful punishment to a criminal or criminals. The people in this thread have specifically been calling for Polanski to be punished according to California law. Whether you agree with those people or not, they are the exact opposite of vigilantes. > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I don’t think what he did can be condoned, but neither can every incident of criminal activity be prosecuted. I’ll take non-sequiturs for a thousand, Alex. So fucking what if not every incident of criminal activity can be prosecuted. This one could, and was. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/50 "2009-09-29T05:58:58Z")
Maybe I’m just ignorant, but aren’t France and the USA allies with mutual extradition agreements? Why wasn’t he simply arrested in France before now and extradited to the USA? And why, if the former is untrue, was he arrested in the country that prides itself on neutrality and money-laundering bank accounts? Something doesn’t add up here. I’d appreciate clarification of my ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/51 "2009-09-29T06:06:38Z")
I have a question that hasn’t really been addressed yet: What’s the California penalty for flight? Even if the state of California decides to stick with the original plea deal, they can still charge him for flight from prosecution. What does that entail? There’s no damn extenuating circumstances on that one, so what’s he looking at in regards to skipping the country to avoid the trial? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/52 "2009-09-29T06:21:57Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Well, that’s the bone of his contention. Apparently, plea deals worked out with the prosecution and attorney general are not binding on the judge. (I didn’t know this. Why would anyone take a deal if it could be tossed that easily?) So the original judge was, apparently, shooting his mouth off to people about how he thought the deal was an outrageous example of leniency towards degenerate celebrities and he planned to dump the DA’s sentencing scheme for his own, more harsh one. Polanski got wind of this and that’s why he decided to take matters into his own two feet. > > I can’t say I’m enthused about a judge tossing the government’s side of the deal after the defendant pleads guilty. But my lawyer friends say it’s SOP. So what do I know. Not much, apparently. It is the defense counsel’s obligation to provide a vigorous defense. It is the prosecution’s obligation to represent the interests of the people as the prosecution sees fit. But it is the judge’s role to see that proceeding are conduced in a manner that is fair, unequivocal, and in accordance with statute law and public policy. The plea agreement drafted between the defense and prosecution is in no way binding upon the court until it is accepted and read into the record, and the judge is completely within his rights to disregard the provisions within if he deems them to be extraordinarily unjust, which in this case were frankly exceptional in their leniency toward an abominable crime. Polanski was always free to withdrawal his guilty plea and ask for a jury by twelve of his peers, who doubtless would have hung upon him an equally stout sentence for his crimes, as he well knew. “Guilty as sin,” barely describes his actions. As for any clemency based upon Polanski’s advanced age or the duration of his restriction, fuck him in both ears. This was a choice of his own volition, and that he is now of advanced age before being brought to justice is not an extenuating circumstance but a consequence of his fugitive actions. He’s gotten away with more than most people–even most celebrities–could get away with in the same circumstance, and that he is now subject to justice for his actions does not entitle him to any sort of consideration. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/53 "2009-09-29T06:24:20Z")
Caifornia Will issue an arrest warrant. they will not extradite outside of state and if you don’t go back you will sleep good. Anyway, Why would Roman drug a little girl only to poke her in the butt? Here we go… If I were to go to lengths to drug a little girl I would have full on vaginal overload. Flame away. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/54 "2009-09-29T06:34:57Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Maybe I’m just ignorant, but aren’t France and the USA allies with mutual extradition agreements? Why wasn’t he simply arrested in France before now and extradited to the USA? The extradition treaty between France and the US says that neither country has to extradite its citizens…as the treaty says: > [@](#): > > There is no obligation upon the Requested State to grant the extradition of a person who is a national of the Requested State, but the executive authority of the United States shall have the power to surrender a national of the United States if, in its discretion, it deems it proper to do so. The nationality of the person sought shall be the nationality of that person at the time the offense was committed. Since Polanski is, and was at the time, a French citizen… Here’s Slate’s Explainer, willing to explain it all to you. > **[The Explainer's Roman Polanski roundup.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/09/the-explainer-s-roman-polanski-roundup.html)** > > Film director Roman Polanski was arrested in Switzerland on Saturday and faces possible extradition to the United States. In 1977, Polanski drugged... ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/55 "2009-09-29T06:49:53Z")
[Victim Samantha Geimer, now 45, 'got over it long ago](http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/09/28/2009-09-28_roman_polanskis_victim_now_45_got_over_it_long_ago.html): > [@](#): > > In January, Geimer, who publicly forgave Polanski in 1997, filed a formal request that Los Angeles prosecutors drop the charges against him. > > “I have survived, indeed prevailed, against whatever harm Mr. Polanski may have caused me as a child,” she said at the time. “I got over it a long time ago.” > > Geimer said Polanski had paid, and she wanted to move on and stop reliving the details of the assault every time he made headlines. > > Read more: [http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/09/28/2009-09-28\_roman\_polanskis\_victim\_now\_45\_got\_over\_it\_long\_ago.html#ixzz0STYBH7MP](http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/09/28/2009-09-28_roman_polanskis_victim_now_45_got_over_it_long_ago.html#ixzz0STYBH7MP) > \ > > In the end, she was relieved when Polanski fled because reporters stopped calling. > > “He did something really gross to me, but it was the media that ruined my life,” she told People in 1997. > > Geimer did not comment Sunday, when the events of 31 years ago resurfaced once more and reporters started knocking on her door again. She seems a very nice lady. Not happy with all the attention though. Given the victim is so clear in that interview, does anyone get the sense this new development is more about the profile and career prospects of the relevant DA? Elsewhere: > [@elmwood](#): > > _Ah zee, you stupide Americans are all uptight about the sex, yes? You and your George Bush and your war and your uptight of the sexing. I spit on you!_ > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Hey! Don’t you realize the Europeans populated the US? Can’t talk bad about the Europeans. They get all pissy. You’re both mature adults, right? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/56 "2009-09-29T07:20:11Z")
To some of you who have quoted me in this thread: I appreciate that this discussion has gotten a little heated, but I did offer a disclaimer and admitted I am not sure of my facts. I came in here to suggest some points and ask some questions, and hopefully be informed. I didn’t come in here to have F-bombs dropped on me even if this is the Pit. To quote me and lace your comments with obscenity is uncalled for. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/57 "2009-09-29T07:30:46Z")
Waaaa, the cowboy vigilantes are being mean, waaa. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/58 "2009-09-29T07:52:33Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Bolding mine. > So fucking what if not every incident of criminal activity can be prosecuted. This one could, and was. > > What’s your point? What about the one or two who said they wanted him put away for life? I was likening them to vigilantes of the old west, who didn’t weigh various factors in meting out punishment, but got busy with the rope or gun first. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/59 "2009-09-29T08:14:51Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > What about the one or two who said they wanted him put away for life? I was likening them to vigilantes of the old west, who didn’t weigh various factors in meting out punishment, but got busy with the rope or gun first. Who exactly said that he should be put away for life? I’ll give you a hint: It begins with “no” and ends with the number between zero and two. So who the hell were you calling a vigilante? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/60 "2009-09-29T12:26:57Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Given the victim is so clear in that interview, does anyone get the sense this new development is more about the profile and career prospects of the relevant DA? [Some people certainly think so](http://www.newser.com/off-the-grid/post/285/why-nab-roman-polanski-now-revenge.html): > [@](#): > > Arresting Polanski is about the LA prosecutor’s office’s public relations. > > Prosecutors ignored Polanski for 30 years because it was a terrible case in which the prosecutor’s office and the sitting judge, in the interest of getting publicity for themselves, had conducted themselves in all variety of dubious ways. But then, last year, a documentary, _Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired_, came out detailing all this dubiousness. So the first motivation for going after Polanski now, as it so often is with prosecutors, is revenge—Polanski and this film makes the DA look bad. The second is that the documentary reminded everybody that the LA prosecutor must be turning a blind eye to Polanski, wandering freely in Europe—hence the arrest now is the prosecutor covering his ass. The third is—and it’s curiously the success of the documentary that made the LA prosecutor’s office realize the brand name significance of the case—press. The headlines now sweeping the world are the prosecutor’s ultimate benefit. Many careers are suddenly advanced. > > It could tell us quite a lot about the real motivations and real interest in Roman Polanski in the LA prosecutor’s office, about the sudden enthusiasm for Polanski’s capture and the convenient timing of it, if we just got the date and time—Polanski’s lawyers can certainly get this information through discovery requests—when they began to Google him, and when they set up the first alert. > > Among all media whores, there is none so greedy and mendacious as a prosecutor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883.md?page=4)