# Fornicate the French, Fornicate the Polanski supporters. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 28, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883 "2009-09-28T19:38:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/161 "2009-09-29T23:15:51Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > I don’t have to make allusion to anything but this: _Christ Almighty eating a corndog and bouncing on a pogo stick woman, were you born this stupid or did you take private lessons in a Special Ed class? Disagree with me all you want, but you are either flat out lying to bait me or you have the reading comprehension skills of the fungus on the fleas of the cloaca of a road killed poison dart frog._ > > You sound like the bastard child of Lewis Grizzard and Larry the Cable Guy when you do that, and you act like you’re being magically less insulting if you sound like you’re spittin’ 'baccy every fifth word. How that made you think of either is beyond me but then I’m still wondering how you learned to type. (I’ll wager there were Fig Newtons and beatings involved in some alternation.) Last time I checked poison dart frogs are South American, not southern. I’d explain the difference but you’re stupid. Using God as an expletive has been recorded for at least 5,000 years. Not sure when using God in odd and vernacular positions began but it’s at least thousands of years old. Interesting trivia: the Plantaganets each claimed their own body part of the Almighty: “God’s teeth!” “God’s nipples!” “God’s nose!” So it’s a rant, yes. It’s not specifically southern and I don’t really take offense at your slights to this region as you’re not a person of consequence, so grab some more Newtons and call victory. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/162 "2009-09-29T23:17:24Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Actually they are pretty much intercheangable in a court of law. It’s in fact pretty much the basis of our legal system- “innocent [that’s legalese for “good behavior”] until PROVEN guilty”. He’s not even accused. But you’re not talking about the same thing **YWTF** is. She was alluding to your assertions regarding harm he hasn’t done to OTHER people. That’s not relevant to the question of whether he’s “innocent until proven guilty.” So they’re not pretty much interchangeable. She’s right: What he has not done to others (his good or bad behavior vis a vis _them_) is not relevant to what he did or didn’t do to this victim (his innocence or guilt vis a vis the crime of raping _her_) ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/163 "2009-09-29T23:19:06Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Ignored in the sense that I’ve answered it REPEATEDLY- if this were a “fresh case” then I’d be fully in favor of it being prosecuted. A 13 year old does not have the legal right to not let someone be prosecuted. > > You didn’t ask, but what if the victim was 21 and did not want to press charges on a recent crime? No, I wouldn’t honor their wishes- for several reasons that I won’t go into since nobody asked. > > But this ISN’T a fresh case and the victim ISN’T a minor now. But this is only a stale case _because of the actions of the guilty party_. **Sampiro** , I apologize if I’ve asked a question you feel you’ve answered too often. However I am doing my best to ask you these questions directly, politely, and respectfully. I would appreciate it if you showed me the same courtesy and either answer the question or direct me to something I may have missed amongst all the hurled invectives and insinuations. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/164 "2009-09-29T23:26:06Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > So it’s a rant, yes. It’s not specifically southern and I don’t really take offense at your slights to this region as you’re not a person of consequence, so grab some more Newtons and call victory. I’ll call victory because you’ve been reduced to calling me stupid repeatedly and a person of no consequence. I don’t hit a guy when he’s down. But if you think I’m the only one who is sick of your retreat to down-home when you get insulting, who takes it as exactly that, and who doesn’t find it at all charming, then I suggest you ask around. Your assertion that this isn’t what you’re intentionally doing – it’s South American! It’s medieval! – insults not my intelligence (because I’m stupid) but your own. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/165 "2009-09-29T23:26:07Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Actually they are pretty much intercheangable in a court of law. It’s in fact pretty much the basis of our legal system- “innocent [that’s legalese for “good behavior”] until PROVEN guilty”. He’s not even accused. I’m not talking legalese (which is what “innocent” is in the court of law…using this definition to assert that Roman has been harmless in the last 30 years is beyond moronic, and so I gotta wonder why you chose to make this particular chess move). Your point is…what? That Roman is innocent like OJ is innocent? Okay, that’s real good. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/166 "2009-09-29T23:29:02Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Your point is…what? That Roman is innocent like OJ is innocent? Okay, that’s real good. OJ was at least found to be innocent by a jury of his peers. Like it or not, Polanski doesn’t have that and likely would not have had that even had he not pled guilty. ---
**Author:** ![bri1600bv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@bri1600bv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bri1600bv)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/167 "2009-09-29T23:45:34Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Actually they are pretty much intercheangable in a court of law. It’s in fact pretty much the basis of our legal system- “innocent [that’s legalese for “good behavior”] until PROVEN guilty”. He’s not even accused. He hasn’t been accused of further crmies..therefore he is assumed innocent. Therefore it can be said that he shouldn’t be punished for the one heinous crime he did because “he never did it again” (that we know about). This is logical to you? Society is best served when people think that justice is applied equally to everyone. As for his “it was 30 years ago”, it’s a little bit like the guy who wants leniency for killing his parents because he’s an orphan. I hope they put him in jail for 10 years or so and he dies in prison. It’s what he deserves. Raping a 13 year old? After druggin her? And we should just forget it cause it’s just like “too traumatic” for the victim if it’s even mentioned again. OK. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/168 "2009-09-29T23:52:06Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I’m not talking legalese (which is what “innocent” is in the court of law…using this definition to assert that Roman has been harmless in the last 30 years is beyond moronic, and so I gotta wonder why you chose to make this particular chess move). > > Your point is…what? That Roman is innocent like OJ is innocent? Okay, that’s real good. I’m not even sure what you’re talking about. You said (or somebody said) that for all we know he has raped other girls. I said that without proof or even accusation such speculation is inadmissible in a court of law and irrelevant; there’s no more reason to believe he’s raped other girls than there is to believe I’m an axe murderer. As for his guilt of the rape, I have NEVER ONE TIME DENIED HE IS GUILTY. I have repeatedly called him a rapist, I have repeatedly referred to Samantha Gailey as his victim, another implication of guilt. I firmly believe he is guilty of the crime. I have said that there’s no evidence he’s committed other rapes. This doesn’t mean that I think he’s a swell character; I think he’s a very fucked up individual who should have been imprisoned 30 years ago (which I’ve said… what’s that word? Repeatedly.) But this not being 30 years ago and as I care about Ms. Gailey-Gaimer’s feelings more than an auto da fa for an abstract notion of “justice”, I oppose his extradition. It’s clear nobody’s mind is going to be changed in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/169 "2009-09-29T23:55:49Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > But this is only a stale case _because of the actions of the guilty party_. > > **Sampiro** , I apologize if I’ve asked a question you feel you’ve answered too often. However I am doing my best to ask you these questions directly, politely, and respectfully. I would appreciate it if you showed me the same courtesy and either answer the question or direct me to something I may have missed amongst all the hurled invectives and insinuations. I have hurled neither invectives nor insinuations at you. It could be argued I hurled invective at snarky\_kong for saying I ignored your question when I had already answered it repeatedly; this was not at you. Insinuation I’m not guilty of at all where you’re concerned, even second hand, so I do not see how an apology is in order. (I’m the one who’s been called a friend of child rape, jeezus… if anybody should be demanding an apology…oh wait, I did, and it was received and accepted and a sincere one given in exchange… but from others I mean.) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/170 "2009-09-30T00:00:21Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > I’ll call victory because you’ve been reduced to calling me stupid repeatedly and a person of no consequence. I don’t hit a guy when he’s down. But if you think I’m the only one who is sick of your retreat to down-home when you get insulting, who takes it as exactly that, and who doesn’t find it at all charming, then I suggest you ask around. Your assertion that this isn’t what you’re intentionally doing – it’s South American! It’s medieval! – insults not my intelligence (because I’m stupid) but your own. I am the least down home person you’ll ever meet in your life. When other kids my age were going deer hunting I was arranging Barbie dolls and action figures into new arrangements of MY FAIR LADY scenes, and I grew up in the middle of a fucking deer preserve in a house filled brimming with rifles. I’ve been asked “where did you grow up?” by people who grew up with me, and still don’t believe me when I tell them. You just flat out don’t know what you’re talking about and have too much hatred against southerners in general. As for your arguments: I understand why you feel the way you do. It is a reasonable position. Will you at least concede that I feel the way I do (that the victim should have say) for reasonable considerations? (I’m not asking if you agree with them, I know you don’t, but I am genuinely curious as to whether you understand why I side with the victim in the matter.) ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/171 "2009-09-30T00:09:57Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I have hurled neither invectives nor insinuations at you. It could be argued I hurled invective at snarky\_kong for saying I ignored your question when I had already answered it repeatedly; this was not at you. Insinuation I’m not guilty of at all where you’re concerned, even second hand, so I do not see how an apology is in order. > > (I’m the one who’s been called a friend of child rape, jeezus… if anybody should be demanding an apology…oh wait, I did, and it was received and accepted and a sincere one given in exchange… but from others I mean.) I asked for no apology and apologized myself for asking a question that had apparently already been answered, but I find that simply ignoring an acknowledged request because you feel it had been answered is at least a little rude. The invective remark was explaining why I may have missed the answer to my question that you had posted earlier. My eyes tend to glaze over after two pages of insults. I’m a bit of a pit lightweight. If it helps, I’ll explain. I’m asking you these questions because I honestly cannot fathom your position. To me this is a fairly open and shut problem. You feel the same way, but on the other side. I’d simply like to know more of how you reached your conclusion. If you’re willing to explain, I’d certainly enjoy it. If not, I’ll simply wander off towards other pursuits no harm no foul. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/172 "2009-09-30T00:10:25Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m not even sure what you’re talking about. I called you out when you made this statement: > [@Sampiro](#): > > 4-not one person will be safer because he’s behind bars You don’t know this. This is an assertion based on an unreasonable assumption, that being that the rape he committed was an isolated, “oops, my bad never again” type of deal. There’s no rational reason to give him the benefit of the doubt like this, just as its dumb to assume that some miscellanious sex offender who busted out of jail must have conducted himself like a boy scout if he hasn’t been caught doing something wrong. To say something like “We have no evidence that Polanski has been a danger to others during his fugitive state,” is one thing. It’s another thing altogether to declare that he _hasn’t_ been a danger, when you can’t possibly know this. A man as rich as Polanski could get away with a lot, especially when it comes to sex with underaged girls. Really, it ain’t that hard to get this. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/173 "2009-09-30T00:12:25Z")
Really there is no reason for all this heat. It seems **Sampiro** thinks the victim’s interests are best served by acceding to her wishes on the matter and holds that out as the paramount good. Especially considering the potential expense it may incur for a very old crime. Meanwhile others appear to argue that society’s interests trump the victim’s in this instance and it is best for society to pursue this case, regardless of any potential expense, and to the point where the victim’s wishes must unfortunately be put aside. I don’t see anything particularly offensive about either of the two above points of view. Why everybody is getting worked up about this is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/174 "2009-09-30T00:35:57Z")
-choke- Woody Allen stands up for Roman Polanski ? -choke- Let’s seeeeeee. A man who fell in love with, and fucked, his adopted daughter is outraged that another man is being held accountable for drugging and raping a 13 year old child. Boy howdy, ain’t that a surprise. :dubious: Ironic, that in rural Georgia Registered Sex Offenders are living in the woods- including teenage boys who at 17 made the “mistake” of falling in love with 15 year olds and sleeping with them. Them? They’re Sex Offenders. Roman? He’s an Artiste. We all see the distinction, of course. Cartooniverse, who figures that a debt owed is a debt that should be paid. Just because you’re popular doesn’t mean you get to fuck children and walk. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/175 "2009-09-30T00:40:54Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I don’t see anything particularly offensive about either of the two above points of view. Why everybody is getting worked up about this is beyond me. I’d agree, if **Sampiro** hadn’t also tried to [use Polanski’s history in his defense](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11607551&postcount=21). ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/176 "2009-09-30T00:41:45Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > It’s a bad plea bargain IMHO. Polanski, a 44 year old man, enticed a 13 year old girl to Jack Nicholson’s house, gave her alcohol and barbiturates, and then raped and sodomized her. A 45 day incarceration (or whatever it is he has served) is not appropriate to the crime. Do you really think he has paid his debt? Really? Apparently what happens at Jack Nicholson’s house doesnt stay at Jack Nicholson’s house ! As for the Polanski fans…can I drug you, shove something unwanted up your ass, live the life famous millionaire for decades, and then just serve 30 days of community service? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/177 "2009-09-30T00:47:29Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I am the least down home person you’ll ever meet in your life. When other kids my age were going deer hunting I was arranging Barbie dolls and action figures into new arrangements of MY FAIR LADY scenes, and I grew up in the middle of a fucking deer preserve in a house filled brimming with rifles. I’ve been asked “where did you grow up?” by people who grew up with me, and still don’t believe me when I tell them. I didn’t say you actually _were_ down-home. I said you retreat to that _more useless ‘n’ tits on a boar-hog!_ style of good ol’ boy Southern when you choose to be insulting, as if your colloquialisms make your insults more amusing. They don’t. Again, if you think this is just my opinion, ask around. > [@](#): > > You just flat out don’t know what you’re talking about and have too much hatred against southerners in general. You keep saying I hate Southerners, but you’re just full of shit on that score. You got some cites for my Southern hatred, trot them out. This isn’t about Southerners or the South; it’s about you and your obnoxious _faux_ Southern insults. > [@](#): > > As for your arguments: I understand why you feel the way you do. It is a reasonable position. Will you at least concede that I feel the way I do (that the victim should have say) for reasonable considerations? Gee, I might have, before you called me stupid and a racist but now – not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/178 "2009-09-30T00:50:18Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I don’t see anything particularly offensive about either of the two above points of view. Why everybody is getting worked up about this is beyond me. That’s because you’re not the one he’s repeatedly called stupid and accused of racism. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/179 "2009-09-30T00:57:04Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > That’s because you’re not the one he’s repeatedly called stupid and accused of racism. Well, to be fair, Sampiro has also been accused of supporting child molesters. Not by you, but it’s still enough to get someone into a bad posture. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883/180 "2009-09-30T01:05:50Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Two questions if I may ask Sampiro, and Frank as you seem to also be on the victim’s rights side. > > 1. If this were a present case (meaning that she was still thirteen and he was aged whatever and there had been no stretch of intervening years) and she felt that he should not be prosecuted, would you agree with her or feel that he should be prosecuted? > > 2. If she felt at age thirteen when the crime occured that Roman Polanski should be prosecuted, why should the way she feels now be more relevant than the way she felt at the time the crime was commited? What many seem to be missing in this thread is that the trial has already occurred. Polanski pled guilty. If and when he is ever returned to the court, it will be for the sentencing phase. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fornicate-the-french-fornicate-the-polanski-supporters/511883.md?page=10)