# Fort Hood Shooter Hasan: Coward? \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305 "2009-11-12T12:44:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/1 "2009-11-12T12:44:43Z")
I wonder how many dopers watched the CNN program about Major Hasan and saw the 2 radical Muslims in New York praising Osama. One was ranting about his beliefs, but were he in a different religion in a Muslim country he wouldn’t have the freedom to act in such a manner. It is easy to call anyone who thinks differently, a infidel, or a heratic, but forget their religion was also started by a human, and not a God. Their belief is not in God but Muhammad. It made me wonder why we do not call the So Called Terriosts, just crazy cowards. What courage does it take to go into a room of people you know are not armed and open fire on them? Osama is the biggest coward of them all, he keeps himself hidden and lets some poor misguided person (or even a kid), go into a crowd of innocent people and blow them up. They cover their faces because they are afraid to be known, or act like they are one of the armies that are against them, but would’t think of wearing something to identify themselves as a Muslim when they do their cowardly act. I wonder why the Muslims that believe in peace let them selves be frightened into not standing up for what they believe is right. Many of them are also paying the price for the act of a small bunch of Cowards. ---
**Author:** ![Keweenaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Keweenaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keweenaw)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/2 "2009-11-12T16:56:27Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > It is easy to call anyone who thinks differently, a infidel, or a heratic. or radical ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/3 "2009-11-12T17:10:35Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > It made me wonder why we do not call the So Called Terriosts, just crazy cowards. Lots of people say that. But there are lots of crazy cowards who don’t go into terrorism, so it helps to be specific. > [@](#): > > What courage does it take to go into a room of people you know are not armed and open fire on them? At the risk of wandering into Bill Maher territory… it does take some. “Brave” is far from the first word I would use to describe these people, but it does take some commitment to do something you know is going to get you killed. Most people wouldn’t do that for any reason. > [@](#): > > They cover their faces because they are afraid to be known, or act like they are one of the armies that are against them, but would’t think of wearing something to identify themselves as a Muslim when they do their cowardly act. Are you sure about that? And in any case most of the time they don’t need to identify themselves as Muslims. It can usually be assumed based on targets, messages, claims of resposibility and things like that. > [@](#): > > I wonder why the Muslims that believe in peace let them selves be frightened into not standing up for what they believe is right. Some of them don’t want to get killed. But I think there is more opposition than you realize - and even if people support some of (say) Al Qaeda’s aims, they usually get tired of them when they start attacking their neighborhoods or causing government crackdowns. These groups attack more Muslims than anyone else, which is self-marginalizing. You don’t hear a lot about it because there just aren’t that many Muslims in America, and we don’t find Muslims overseas very interesting when they are not terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/4 "2009-11-12T21:24:53Z")
Osama bin Laden is a multi-millionaire wholives in caves and is more or less permanently on the run from the most powerful country on earth… _by choice_. I don’t think _coward_ is really the right word. Crazy, certainly. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/5 "2009-11-12T21:41:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Osama bin Laden is a multi-millionaire who lives in caves and is more or less permanently on the run from the most powerful country on earth… _by choice_. > > I don’t think _coward_ is really the right word. Crazy, certainly. You know who else is a multi-millionaire who lives in caves and is more or less permanently on the run from the authorities? Batman. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/6 "2009-11-13T00:02:04Z")
You know, you never see them in the same place at the same time… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/7 "2009-11-13T00:23:50Z")
I don’t know if you can really call Bin Laden a millionaire. Most or all of his assets were probably frozen years ago. He’d be very very rich if he had not chosen terrorism, but I don’t he was expecting the life he has as a consequence of the attacks he organized. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/8 "2009-11-13T00:43:34Z")
He received a $7 million monthly stipend from the family fortune until 1992, and his own assets weren’t all frozen until some time after 9/11. Remember, he was already living in Sudan in the mid-90s; hardly the lap of luxury, even if he had holed up in the presidential mansion. ---
**Author:** ![Skylark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Skylark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skylark)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/9 "2009-11-13T01:58:40Z")
According to a page in Peter Bergen (who, with Peter Arnett, was one of the first Westerners to interview bin Laden)'s book _Holy War, Inc._, one the subject of Osama’s access/relations/money with the rest of his family: “blood is thicker than water.” There’s a book that just came out called _Growing Up bin Laden_, written by one of his (estranged) wives and children, about what life was like with the man. I just started, so no juicy bits yet, but _Vanity Fair_ ran an excerpt: [Omar bin Laden on his father | Vanity Fair](http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/10/omar-bin-laden-200910) ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/10 "2009-11-13T05:03:54Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > It is easy to call anyone who thinks differently, a infidel, or a heratic, but forget their religion was also started by a human, and not a God. Their belief is not in God but Muhammad. What are you getting at here? Is this some roundabout way of stating that your god is real and theirs is made up? And anyway, you’re wrong. It’s not “Muhammad is great!” they shout, after all. They believe Muhammad explained a greater truth, but they believe _in_ Allah, and Allah is pretty much just a name for God, analogous to the Christian God. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/11 "2009-11-13T05:38:06Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > What are you getting at here? Is this some roundabout way of stating that your god is real and theirs is made up? > > And anyway, you’re wrong. It’s not “Muhammad is great!” they shout, after all. They believe Muhammad explained a greater truth, but they believe _in_ Allah, and Allah is pretty much just a name for God, analogous to the Christian God. Indeed. In fact, Islam insists on an incorporeal God with no human attributes, unlike some other religions. I’d think many Muslims look at the Christian view of Jesus and see Christianity as a religion started by man, or at least a man-god. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/12 "2009-11-13T05:54:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He received a $7 million monthly stipend from the family fortune until 1992, and his own assets weren’t all frozen until some time after 9/11. Remember, he was already living in Sudan in the mid-90s; hardly the lap of luxury, even if he had holed up in the presidential mansion. Plenty of Saudis funnel money into Osamas organization. 18 of the 911 attackers were Saudis. They are not going broke. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/13 "2009-11-13T12:52:38Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > What are you getting at here? Is this some roundabout way of stating that your god is real and theirs is made up? > > And anyway, you’re wrong. It’s not “Muhammad is great!” they shout, after all. They believe Muhammad explained a greater truth, but they believe _in_ Allah, and Allah is pretty much just a name for God, analogous to the Christian God. I am saying that what people say is the words of God are really the words of humans, no, God didn’t say anything unless we are gods as the Psalmist states. Muhammad was believed to write what a god said, but because he said God(Allah’s angel) dictated a book , doesn’t prove anything so one believes in the writer or author not God. I know they shout God is great,but I doubt that a God would be pleased that someone killed in His name. Yes, peace loving Muslims try to follow a god ,but those like Major Hasan who go into a room of defenseless people and kill them in the name of their god is not bravery, he may believe it is a good thing but in human terms it is a cowardly act. If the USA wanted to they could bomb all the people off the earth, our culture doesn’t think that way,and they should be grateful that we are not like them, they go on and on if by accident some inncocent people are killed in a war, but they think nothing of killing at random and even killing some of their own people as Major Hasan did. Some of the people in the Twin Towers were Muslims but that didn’t stop the suicidal ones from killing all the innocent people, some who may have even sympathized with them. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/14 "2009-11-13T12:58:47Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > Indeed. In fact, Islam insists on an incorporeal God with no human attributes, unlike some other religions. I’d think many Muslims look at the Christian view of Jesus and see Christianity as a religion started by man, or at least a man-god. It is my understanding that Muslims consider Jesus a Prophet, just that Muhammad got the story straightened out by some angel of God who dictated a book to him. I would rather be a slave in the pre-civil war period than be a Muslim. The women are treated like slaves. If a man can hit his daughter with a car and kill her, and injure her mother because she is too western, I doubt such a act would be praised by a Supreme Being, who also created a woman. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/15 "2009-11-13T13:05:49Z")
> [@Keweenaw](#): > > or radical Even some Muslims call them radical. If one’s beliefs lead one to Kill another person they are acting radical, hence the use of the word. I do not believe the Majority of Muslims want the radicals to kill anyone just as I do not believe that the mainstream Christians who are anti-abortion want anyone blowing up clinics,or killing doctors and nurses. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/16 "2009-11-13T13:20:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Osama bin Laden is a multi-millionaire wholives in caves and is more or less permanently on the run from the most powerful country on earth… _by choice_. > > I don’t think _coward_ is really the right word. Crazy, certainly. All cowards run by choice. He is very content letting some poor brainwashed person or young kid blow himself up. If blowing oneself up for a cause is good why isn’t Osama blowing himself up? What good has he done for the Muslim people, he may have killed a lot of Westerners, but so is he responsible for killing a lot of his own followers, who if they wouldn’t have killed the people in the Twin Towers, the pentagon and the plane in Pennyilvania, then the USA, and the other countries would not have gone into Afhganistan. The Taliban were given a choice, but chose Osama over their own people. He has stirred up hate but accomplished nothing more, than distruction for even the one’s he is supposed to be doing this for. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/17 "2009-11-13T14:00:26Z")
Whether or not he has done any good for the Muslim people doesn’t factor in to whether or not he is a coward. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/18 "2009-11-13T14:51:07Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/19 "2009-11-13T15:17:56Z")
Wait, so Muslims think someone after Jesus spoke to God and got the real story? That’s heresy! I hope we elect someone like Mitt Romney for President so he can straighten this out. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/20 "2009-11-13T15:37:43Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I would rather be a slave in the pre-civil war period than be a Muslim. The women are treated like slaves. Way too broad a brush to make sense, dude. You mean that you’d rather be a slave in the antebellum South than be a Muslim in a repressive theocratic Islamic society where the women are treated like slaves. The status of women in Islamic societies ranges from conditions that, as you note, are little better than slavery (as in Taliban Afghanistan) all the way up to full equality of legal rights (as in Turkey). > [@monavis](#): > > I wonder why the Muslims that believe in peace let them selves be frightened into not standing up for what they believe is right. Partly it’s just the universal tragedy of apathy or timidity on the part of the well-intentioned that lets the evil-intentioned get their way (you can supply the Burke quote for yourself). And partly it’s that we in the west don’t hear much about Muslims who **do** stand up against radical fellow Muslims advocating or committing violence. [This list](http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_terrorism_part_ii_statements_by_organizatio/0012210) of a hundred or so official pronouncements by Muslim organizations denouncing radical Islamist violence and terror, accompanied by a list of Muslim-organized demonstrations and conferences protesting violence and terror tactics, is a good place to start if you want more exposure to the pro-peace Muslim voices. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305.md?page=2)