# Fort Hood Shooter Hasan: Coward? \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305 "2009-11-12T12:44:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/41 "2009-11-15T03:09:57Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > Isn’t this a little like calling Gen. Patton a coward for not putting himself on the front lines? You obviously haven’t watched the movie. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/42 "2009-11-15T03:13:47Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > No, he thumbs his nose at us on film, keeping himself out of harms way. And letting some poor snook do his dirty work. Like any other general in the world. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/43 "2009-11-15T04:13:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Reminiscent of a line heard many years ago… > > “When you get to Viet Nam, you will meet some of the bravest, most determined, most resourceful people you are ever likely to meet. And you will be there to kill them.” “Anybody who runs… is a VC! Anybody who stands still… is a well-disciplined VC!” ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/44 "2009-11-15T04:28:08Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Since Bin Laden is not the head of a government and hides, he is sure acting like a coward. If a person has some one else do their dirty work and hides because he doesn’t want people to know where he is, that is a cowardly act. To send someone else to kill a bunch of innocent people is the act of a coward. You can honor such actions but I do not!! What does being or not being the head of a government make a difference in as to being a coward or not? What’s “snook” from, as an aside? I’ve never heard the word before. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/45 "2009-11-15T13:30:54Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > Isn’t this a little like calling Gen. Patton a coward for not putting himself on the front lines? No,it is not the same. Patton didn’t hide in the hills,and order some poor uneducated guy to blow himself up, he put trained soilders in with others to fight a fair fight, they were armed and the enemy was armed, they didn’t send guys to blow up buildings with a whole lot of innocent people inside some who were even of the same belief. He did all he could to protect the innocent. He wouldn’t send some wacked out Major to go into a room full of unarmed men to kill them. They may have been arrested but not slaughtered. If you like Osama so much why don’t you go there and live with him? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/46 "2009-11-15T13:33:27Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Wait, so Muslims think someone after Jesus spoke to God and got the real story? That’s heresy! I hope we elect someone like Mitt Romney for President so he can straighten this out. Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, they do not believe he was devine. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/47 "2009-11-15T13:44:37Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > What does being or not being the head of a government make a difference in as to being a coward or not? > > What’s “snook” from, as an aside? I’ve never heard the word before. When a government goes to war with another they wear uniforms and at least try to fight an other army. The Heads of government make them selves availible and do not hide. A coward attacks innocent people that he doesn’t care about to try to make a point. bin Laden is a citizen of Saudi Arabia and it is his government he should be trying to change, but he lacks the courage to be there and act in it’s behalf, so he went to Aphganistan and sadly the USA helped him to gain the power he has,because of the Soviet Union. Now he turned against the USA because he believes that Infidels are in his country. He isn’t there trying to oust them, but is hiding in the hills of Pakistan and Afhganistan letting others do his dirty work which is accomplishing nothing except getting a lot of people killed unnecesarily. His government wants the USA in Saudi Arabia, and he is apparently afraid to be there. Snook is an old expression for some one who lets themselves be used. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/48 "2009-11-15T13:58:21Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. I am not talking about whether bin Laden’s goals or methodologies are “good.” I’m responding to the idea that he is a coward. He most demonstrably is not a coward. He has taken real risks to his safety to follow his beliefs, that is not cowardice. Think as you wish to me he is one of the biggest cowards ever and that is giving him the benefit of the doubt. If some one believed it was good to kill your loved ones because you live near them, then because of that belief, that would be a good reason to kill? Then hiding so he wouldn’t be caught would be an admirable trait? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/49 "2009-11-15T14:02:15Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, they do not believe he was devine. A post script to the last post to you. Muslims believe an angel of God dictated a Book to Muhammad on God’s behalf hence the Koran. ---
**Author:** ![Skylark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Skylark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skylark)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/50 "2009-11-15T16:23:25Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > No,it is not the same. Patton didn’t hide in the hills,and order some poor uneducated guy to blow himself up, he put trained soilders in with others to fight a fair fight, they were armed and the enemy was armed, they didn’t send guys to blow up buildings with a whole lot of innocent people inside some who were even of the same belief. He did all he could to protect the innocent. You must not be too familiar with this whole modern unconventional warfare thing. > [@](#): > > He wouldn’t send some wacked out Major to go into a room full of unarmed men to kill them. They may have been arrested but not slaughtered. They’re still investigating that one. > [@](#): > > If you like Osama so much why don’t you go there and live with him? Unnecessary. > [@](#): > > bin Laden is a citizen of Saudi Arabia and it is his government he should be trying to change, but he lacks the courage to be there and act in it’s behalf, Technically speaking, he is actually Yemeni (by blood not birth), but if he is currently banned from ever returning to Saudi Arabia. > [@](#): > > so he went to Aphganistan and sadly the USA helped him to gain the power he has,because of the Soviet Union. This is one of those “great stories that aren’t true” like in the recent thread. The United States never funded bin Laden during the Afghanistan War. US funding went through an intermediary, Pakistan’s intelligence arm, thinking they would know the guerrilla’s best, and although the ISI’s goals and ours didn’t entirely line up, bin Laden never received US $$$ or training. He had plenty of his own money, being the son of gazillionaires. > [@](#): > > Now he turned against the USA because he believes that Infidels are in his country You can’t turn against something if you’ve always been against it. > [@](#): > > He isn’t there trying to oust them, but is hiding in the hills of Pakistan and Afhganistan letting others do his dirty work which is accomplishing nothing except getting a lot of people killed unnecesarily. I would argue that currently, among other things, he is actively working to get Americans out of the Arabian peninsula. To some minor extent this has happened, as the USAF presence at Prince Sultan Air Base ended around 2006. > [@](#): > > His government wants the USA in Saudi Arabia, and he is apparently afraid to be there. Like a lot of radicals, if he ever returned to his home country he would face a death sentence. So there is an incentive to not return for a while. > [@](#): > > Think as you wish to me he is one of the biggest cowards ever and that is giving him the benefit of the doubt. He’s an asshole and a mass murderer, but not a coward. > [@](#): > > Muslims believe an angel of God dictated a Book to Muhammad on God’s behalf hence the Koran. Yes, moreorless. Jesus is also featured, [Jesus in Islam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam). ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/51 "2009-11-15T16:28:17Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Snook is an old expression for some one who lets themselves be used. I think you mean _schnook._ Yiddish phrase, basically meaning “sucker.” Henry Hill at the end of Goodfellas: “I have to live the rest of my life like a schnook.” Schnook is even recognized by Firefox’s spellchecker. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/52 "2009-11-15T17:19:52Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Think as you wish to me he is one of the biggest cowards ever and that is giving him the benefit of the doubt. If some one believed it was good to kill your loved ones because you live near them, then because of that belief, that would be a good reason to kill? Then hiding so he wouldn’t be caught would be an admirable trait? I’m starting to wonder if there’s a brick wall somewhere in your recent ancestry. _Nobody said anything about bin Laden or his traits being admirable_. We are taking issue with your use of the word _coward_, which is by any reasonable assessment unwarranted. > [@](#): > > If you like Osama so much why don’t you go there and live with him? :rolleyes: Oh, please. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/53 "2009-11-15T18:42:23Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > When a government goes to war with another they wear uniforms and at least try to fight an other army. No, not necessarily. > [@](#): > > The Heads of government make them selves availible and do not hide. “Make themselves avaliable”? How so? I was under the impression that most heads of government hired or had hired for them some form of well-trained guards, had headquarters that are considerably protected themselves, and generally tend to stay away from even front-line command, let alone front-line action. > [@](#): > > A coward attacks innocent people that he doesn’t care about to try to make a point. I don’t see how that’s cowardly. A whole range of unpleasant things - cruel, arbitrary, and so on - but cowardly? Why? > [@](#): > > bin Laden is a citizen of Saudi Arabia and it is his government he should be trying to change, but he lacks the courage to be there and act in it’s behalf, so he went to Aphganistan and sadly the USA helped him to gain the power he has,because of the Soviet Union. Now he turned against the USA because he believes that Infidels are in his country. He isn’t there trying to oust them, but is hiding in the hills of Pakistan and Afhganistan letting others do his dirty work which is accomplishing nothing except getting a lot of people killed unnecesarily. His government wants the USA in Saudi Arabia, and he is apparently afraid to be there. Ah, now here you have a reasonable claim. However, i’m going to ask you a question in return; how would you define heroism in these terms? > [@](#): > > Snook is an old expression for some one who lets themselves be used. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/54 "2009-11-16T12:29:40Z")
> [@Skylark](#): > > You must not be too familiar with this whole modern unconventional warfare thing. > > They’re still investigating that one. > > Unnecessary. > > Technically speaking, he is actually Yemeni (by blood not birth), but if he is currently banned from ever returning to Saudi Arabia. > > This is one of those “great stories that aren’t true” like in the recent thread. The United States never funded bin Laden during the Afghanistan War. US funding went through an intermediary, Pakistan’s intelligence arm, thinking they would know the guerrilla’s best, and although the ISI’s goals and ours didn’t entirely line up, bin Laden never received US $$$ or training. He had plenty of his own money, being the son of gazillionaires. > > You can’t turn against something if you’ve always been against it. > > I would argue that currently, among other things, he is actively working to get Americans out of the Arabian peninsula. To some minor extent this has happened, as the USAF presence at Prince Sultan Air Base ended around 2006. > > Like a lot of radicals, if he ever returned to his home country he would face a death sentence. So there is an incentive to not return for a while. > > He’s an asshole and a mass murderer, but not a coward. > > Yes, moreorless. Jesus is also featured, [Jesus in Islam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam). I still see him as a coward and have no respect for such a person. To me murder is a cowardly act. It is a selfish act and an act not of bravery. Murderers do not kill in self defense that is a cowardly act, as well as evil in my opinion, of course you are entitled to your own opinion. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/55 "2009-11-16T12:32:45Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I think you mean _schnook._ Yiddish phrase, basically meaning “sucker.” > > Henry Hill at the end of Goodfellas: “I have to live the rest of my life like a schnook.” > > Schnook is even recognized by Firefox’s spellchecker. In my neighborhood growing up in the 30’s we used the word snook…perhaps it wasn’t in the dictionary but all our neighbors used it. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/56 "2009-11-16T12:39:40Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > No, not necessarily. “Make themselves avaliable”? How so? I was under the impression that most heads of government hired or had hired for them some form of well-trained guards, had headquarters that are considerably protected themselves, and generally tend to stay away from even front-line command, let alone front-line action. I don’t see how that’s cowardly. A whole range of unpleasant things - cruel, arbitrary, and so on - but cowardly? Why? Ah, now here you have a reasonable claim. However, i’m going to ask you a question in return; how would you define heroism in these terms? Thanks! A hero or heroism to me means a person risking his or her life to protect or aid another. A form of self defense or the defense of others. The soldier (who though unarmed) that took a chair and threw it at the Major during his rampage is a hero to me, he was up against a mad man with 2 automatic guns and tried to stop the killings. A hero doesn’t try to kill innocent people but tries to avoid it. Heroism is not a selfish act. Murder is. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/57 "2009-11-16T12:45:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m starting to wonder if there’s a brick wall somewhere in your recent ancestry. _Nobody said anything about bin Laden or his traits being admirable_. We are taking issue with your use of the word _coward_, which is by any reasonable assessment unwarranted. > > :rolleyes: Oh, please. I have no problem with you disagreeing with me and my meaning of the word coward. I give you the right to think as you wish. If I see bin Laden wearing a bomb and blowing himself up I may change my mind, until then I stay by my translation of the word coward as far as he is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/58 "2009-11-16T12:57:20Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > What does being or not being the head of a government make a difference in as to being a coward or not? > > What’s “snook” from, as an aside? I’ve never heard the word before. I forgot to answer your question of being the head of a government etc. A head of a government is a represenative of it’s people, he (or she) takes on the chore of trying to make a country a safer and better place for it’s citizens, not a renegade like bin Laden or the McVeighs who take it upon themselves to kill innocent people (or have some one else do their dirty work) to satisfy their own desires of what people should have,or not. The citizens of Saudi Arabia didn’t choose bin Laden to have people blow up buildings and planes to kill innocent people some who may have at that time even sympathized with him. McVeigh wasn’t acting for the people of the USA either he was acting in a selfish way. To me that is the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/59 "2009-11-16T16:13:00Z")
I know I’m late to the game here, but I edited the thread title to make it more descriptive. It was “CNN story about Major Hasan.” ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305/60 "2009-11-16T20:01:39Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > A hero or heroism to me means a person risking his or her life to protect or aid another. A form of self defense or the defense of others. The soldier (who though unarmed) that took a chair and threw it at the Major during his rampage is a hero to me, he was up against a mad man with 2 automatic guns and tried to stop the killings. A hero doesn’t try to kill innocent people but tries to avoid it. Heroism is not a selfish act. Murder is. Then I think I might see a problem. It seems like your definitions of heroism and cowardliness don’t leave much of a room for, for lack of a better term, normal behaviour. I mean, it seems to me like both heroism and cowardice would be not just abnormal, but rare - for the most part, we’re all pretty much in the normal, nonheroic, noncowardly place as far as our actions go. But I don’t see what I would think should be a quite vast gap between what you would consider heroic and what you would consider cowardly. > [@](#): > > A head of a government is a represenative of it’s people, he (or she) takes on the chore of trying to make a country a safer and better place for it’s citizens, not a renegade like bin Laden or the McVeighs who take it upon themselves to kill innocent people (or have some one else do their dirty work) to satisfy their own desires of what people should have,or not. Why isn’t the head of a government’s desire for a safer and better country their own desires of what people should have or not? Moreover, what does this have to do with cowardliness? Beyond that; do you really think that heads of governments have never taken it upon themselves to kill innocent people? > [@](#): > > The citizens of Saudi Arabia didn’t choose bin Laden to have people blow up buildings and planes to kill innocent people some who may have at that time even sympathized with him. McVeigh wasn’t acting for the people of the USA either he was acting in a selfish way. To me that is the difference. I don’t see what democratic election has to do with cowardliness, either. And i’m not sure how you know for certain that bin Laden and McVeigh _necessarily_ are selfish; I mean, they both seem to have given up quite a bit in order to act as they did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fort-hood-shooter-hasan-coward-edited-title/517305.md?page=4)