# Fossil Fuel Replenishment **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 18, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246 "2015-03-18T00:06:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/1 "2015-03-18T00:06:23Z")
So, I’m just curious that since fossil fuels are made from life, and since there is an unbroken line of life leading back since life began, shouldn’t things like coal and oil be constantly manufactured? I realize the problem with using up things faster than they are being created, but that’s not really my question. Won’t life forms today eventually be oil and coal of the future? And do scientists know how much fossil fuel is produced, say, every day right now? Like let’s say that right now there are 1 trillion barrels of oil left in the earth, how much of that is oil that just came into existence yesterday? Do you understand what I am asking? Is there a way to know? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/2 "2015-03-18T00:37:53Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > So, I’m just curious that since fossil fuels are made from life, and since there is an unbroken line of life leading back since life began, shouldn’t things like coal and oil be constantly manufactured? I realize the problem with using up things faster than they are being created, but that’s not really my question. Won’t life forms today eventually be oil and coal of the future? > > And do scientists know how much fossil fuel is produced, say, every day right now? Like let’s say that right now there are 1 trillion barrels of oil left in the earth, how much of that is oil that just came into existence yesterday? Do you understand what I am asking? Is there a way to know? well, peat is kind of the first step of organic matter becoming coal, and there are regions which can make a ton of peat. but even then, the recapture of the carbon from it is slower than it’s used so it’s kind of a “slow renewable” resource. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/3 "2015-03-18T00:48:48Z")
Someone with the specific facts will be along shortly, but the skinny is that fossil fuels are being depleted much, much faster than they are being replenished. The replenishment rate is essentially negligible as compared to the rate we are using fossil fuels, which is why they are classified as non-renewables. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/4 "2015-03-18T13:09:34Z")
Most of the coal is from the Carboniferous period, which was a period in time after true wood had evolved in plants, but before fungi and bacteria capable of digesting lignin has evolved. Trees which died didn’t really decay, but were eventually buried and turned into coal. Today trees which die decay and don’t get the chance to turn into coal, even if you waited around long enough for them to do so. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/5 "2015-03-18T14:33:27Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > So, I’m just curious that since fossil fuels are made from life, and since there is an unbroken line of life leading back since life began, shouldn’t things like coal and oil be constantly manufactured? Yes, coal is being formed all the time, and so are all the forms of carbon that lead up to the various kinds of what we call coal. [Peat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat), Lignite, Bituminous and [Anthracite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bituminous_coal) coal are always being made. > [@Shawn1767](#): > > Won’t life forms today eventually be oil and coal of the future? Some of them, but mostly primitive life forms form coal and oil. > [@Shawn1767](#): > > And do scientists know how much fossil fuel is produced, say, every day right now? No, but we can guess. > [@Shawn1767](#): > > Like let’s say that right now there are 1 trillion barrels of oil left in the earth, how much of that is oil that just came into existence yesterday? Do you understand what I am asking? Is there a way to know? I understand what you are asking, and there are ways to [estimate the amounts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum#Formation). Compared to the very old fossil reserves, it’s not that much. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/6 "2015-03-18T16:10:31Z")
The formation of coal took about 60 million years (about 300 million years ago). Oil also takes millions of years to form. I don’t think people appreciate “millions”. The whole of recorded history goes back maybe 5,000 years. We’ve been agricultural for what, about 19,000 years. Something distinguishable as human has been around (depending on your level of ‘human’) for somewhere between a few hundred thousand to maybe 3 million years. We’ve been using hydrocarbons for a few hundred years at the very most. So likely we are burying carbon to form the next eon’s hydrocarbon supplies… but the existing growth is negligible compared to how fast we are depleting existing supplies. There are places in “the wild” that are still accumulating peat. Oil is accumulations of organic matter that piles up faster than it can decay. The human factor is another major problem. The abundant wild growth of ancient times has been wrecked by humans. The rolling farm fields of eastern North America and Europe used to be covered with giant forests - we cut them down, burned them most likely, and don’t allow their replacement to grow. Then there’s climate change - Lebanon is renowned for its cedars, they were the lumber supply of choice in the Ancient Mediterranean for ships and construction; today between human destruction and climate change, it is a shadow of what it used to be. Plus, as AndrewL points out, coal formed before nature evolved a form capable of composting dead trees. As a result of these factors, we are likely forming a lot less future carbon sources than was happening in pre-historic, pre-human times. One “bright” spot - we may be overfishing to the point where the traditional eaters of plankton and other organic matter are unable to keep up with the supply - maybe we’re accumulating sea-bottom organic matter, future oil, faster than typically used to happen? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/7 "2015-03-18T16:28:48Z")
> [@AndrewL](#): > > Most of the coal is from the Carboniferous period, which was a period in time after true wood had evolved in plants, but before fungi and bacteria capable of digesting lignin has evolved. Trees which died didn’t really decay, but were eventually buried and turned into coal. Today trees which die decay and don’t get the chance to turn into coal, even if you waited around long enough for them to do so. As far as I understand, coal is formed from peat, and peat is formed from decaying moss. Trees have nothing to do with it. The process is still continuing; peat is still forming gradually, and old peat is slowly turning into coal. [http://www.uky.edu/KGS/coal/coalform.htm](http://www.uky.edu/KGS/coal/coalform.htm) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/8 "2015-03-18T16:33:14Z")
And if you visit somewhere like the Isle of Lewis and Harris, for example, we are mining away millennia of accumulated peat before it has a chance to turn into anything more condensed. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/9 "2015-03-18T18:01:56Z")
A strange (but perhaps wondrous) thing is known to be happening currently. [Over half of the enormous amount of fossil carbon](http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/missing-carbon/) (as CO2) we are adding to the atmosphere is going someplace. It does not remain in the air. [Theories about where abound](http://www.nature.com/climate/2007/0708/full/climate.2007.35.html), but be it [the oceans](http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/BOREASCarbon/) or [the trees](http://enviroliteracy.org/article.php/1339.html), it’s going someplace to be locked up. (best guess is boreal forests, bogs and peat marches). This is no small amount of carbon. If it continues (and there is no sign of a slowdown yet), then over half of the fossil fuels used by mankind will end up back in the system. Somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/10 "2015-03-18T18:49:14Z")
I think that plant life in the “Carboniferous” period (which term has apparently now been offically replaced) – the very roughly 300-million-year-ago period alluded to above – was so abundant that fossil fuel production far exceeded what is being produced now. At least that’s what I was taught a while back, not sure if current scholarship agrees. So it’s not just that we’re using it fast, but also that unique conditions in the past created a large reserve we are using up. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/11 "2015-03-18T19:21:07Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > A strange (but perhaps wondrous) thing is known to be happening currently. [Over half of the enormous amount of fossil carbon](http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/missing-carbon/) (as CO2) we are adding to the atmosphere is going someplace. It does not remain in the air. [Theories about where abound](http://www.nature.com/climate/2007/0708/full/climate.2007.35.html), but be it [the oceans](http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/BOREASCarbon/) or [the trees](http://enviroliteracy.org/article.php/1339.html), it’s going someplace to be locked up. (best guess is boreal forests, bogs and peat marches). > > This is no small amount of carbon. If it continues (and there is no sign of a slowdown yet), then over half of the fossil fuels used by mankind will end up back in the system. Somewhere. That is good indeed, but not enough, as the cite from the National Geographic reports: “By rights it should be worse.” > [@](#): > > Each year humanity dumps roughly 8.8 billion tons (8 metric tons) of carbon into the atmosphere, 6.5 billion tons (5.9 metric tons) from fossil fuels and 1.5 billion (1.4 metric) from deforestation. But less than half that total, 3.2 billion tons (2.9 metric tons), remains in the atmosphere to warm the planet. Where is the missing carbon? “It’s a really major mystery, if you think about it,” says Wofsy, an atmospheric scientist at Harvard University. His research site in the Harvard Forest is apparently not the only place where nature is breathing deep and helping save us from ourselves. Forests, grasslands, and the waters of the oceans must be acting as carbon sinks. They steal back roughly half of the carbon dioxide we emit, slowing its buildup in the atmosphere and delaying the effects on climate. > > Who can complain? No one, for now. But the problem is that scientists can’t be sure that this blessing will last, or whether, as the globe continues to warm, it might even change to a curse if forests and other ecosystems change from carbon sinks to sources, releasing more carbon into the atmosphere than they absorb. > [@](#): > > Compared with these vast natural exchanges, the few billion tons of carbon that humans contribute to the atmosphere each year seem paltry. Yet like a finger on a balance, our steady contributions are throwing the natural cycle out of whack. The atmosphere’s carbon backup is growing: Its carbon dioxide level has risen by some 30 percent since Priestley’s time. It may now be higher than it has been in at least 20 million years. In the end the issue remains: Even with that noticed carbon sequestration the increase of CO2 in the atmosphere continues. > **[Trends in CO2 - NOAA Global Monitoring Laboratory](https://gml.noaa.gov/ccgg/trends/)** > > GML conducts research on greenhouse gas and carbon cycle feedbacks, changes in aerosols, and surface radiation, and recovery of stratospheric ozone. But besides environmental concerns, the issue here IMHO is that knowing about how long fossil fuels take to form does point to the need to conserve those resources and/or to use alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/12 "2015-03-18T22:48:25Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > A strange (but perhaps wondrous) thing is known to be happening currently. [Over half of the enormous amount of fossil carbon](http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/missing-carbon/) (as CO2) we are adding to the atmosphere is going someplace. It does not remain in the air. [Theories about where abound](http://www.nature.com/climate/2007/0708/full/climate.2007.35.html), but be it [the oceans](http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/BOREASCarbon/) or [the trees](http://enviroliteracy.org/article.php/1339.html), it’s going someplace to be locked up. (best guess is boreal forests, bogs and peat marches). > > This is no small amount of carbon. If it continues (and there is no sign of a slowdown yet), then over half of the fossil fuels used by mankind will end up back in the system. Somewhere. Sequestration by the ocean might not necessarily be a good thing. In a sense, it’s the worst thing. > **[Permian–Triassic extinction event](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permian%E2%80%93Triassic_extinction_event)** > > Approximately 251.9 million years ago, the Permian–Triassic (P–T, P–Tr) extinction event (PTME; also known as the Late Permian extinction event, the Latest Permian extinction event, the End-Permian extinction event, and colloquially as the Great Dying) forms the boundary between the Permian and Triassic geologic periods, and with them the Paleozoic and Mesozoic eras. It is Earth's most severe known extinction event, with the extinction of 57% of biological families, 8 The scientific consensus is ... ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/13 "2015-03-18T23:45:26Z")
Some have theorized that [petroleum is being constantly being generated through geological processes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin). After all, carbon is just element #6, it appears _everywhere in the universe_. Saturn’s big moon Titan has hydrocarbon seas (mostly methane) that were almost certainly laid there by dinosaurs. Of course, the rate of abiotic oil creation is a bit disputed. I think the guy who came up with the notion gave ridiculously high rates of generation, such that we would never run out of lots of oil. The reality is probably a rate far far lower than is practically measurable. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/14 "2015-03-19T02:48:44Z")
[This](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_cycle#/media/File:Carbon_cycle.jpg) is a good visualization of the [carbon cycle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_cycle). Roughly, we liberate around 9 Gigatons Carbon / year. 3 Gigagtons of this is absorbed back through photosynthesis on land and 2 Gigatons is absorbed by the oceans per year; leaving 4 Gigatons in the atmosphere. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/15 "2015-03-19T05:32:02Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > we’ve been agricultural for what, about 19,000 years. 12,000 ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/16 "2015-03-19T05:34:33Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > 12,000 Yeah, that was a typo, I meant 10,000. ---
**Author:** ![Obtenebrate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9f8e36/32.png) [@Obtenebrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obtenebrate)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/17 "2015-03-19T09:59:20Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Some have theorized that [petroleum is being constantly being generated through geological processes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin). After all, carbon is just element #6, it appears _everywhere in the universe_. Saturn’s big moon Titan has hydrocarbon seas (mostly methane) that were almost certainly laid there by dinosaurs. > > Of course, the rate of abiotic oil creation is a bit disputed. I think the guy who came up with the notion gave ridiculously high rates of generation, such that we would never run out of lots of oil. The reality is probably a rate far far lower than is practically measurable. Uh, the hydrocarbon seas on Titan were “almost certainly” laid there by dinosaurs? Look, I’m open to any idea that can be proved, but that one requires an unreasonable amount of evidence in order to be the most likely explanation. I simply don’t see how that conclusion could be reached by anyone. The problem with the replenishment of fossil fuels by geological processes is that it doesn’t explain any of the oil we’ve found, which are located in areas where the sedimentary rock has gotten pressed down over time, and predicts that we would find oil specifically in areas of rock uplifted from deep within the earth- which as far as anyone knows doesn’t exist. If he could find all this oil in areas he predicts it would be and where no one else is even looking, he’d be a trillionaire. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/18 "2015-03-19T13:20:03Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > Someone with the specific facts will be along shortly, but the skinny is that fossil fuels are being depleted much, much faster than they are being replenished. What ever happened to Thomas Gold’s theory about hydrocarbons coming from immeasurably vast deeper deposits? I’m reasonably sure it’s nonsense but he had some good points in his favor, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/19 "2015-03-19T14:57:00Z")
Methane is one of the most basic molecules of the universe. No surprise that like water (the other common basic compound) it’s found on a number of planets an moons where the sun is too distant to cause it to evaporate off. It’s a condensate from the primordial cloud that formed the solar system. Over time, it would chain to form longer, more complex hydrocarbons. As for earth, anything volatile like methane would likely burn off with a reactive oxygen atmosphere, unless buried under sediments away from the atmosphere. Fortunately, earth has plants that are busy creating new complex organic molecules to “make” oil and coal. The “organic” molecules that were part of original formation of the earth have long ago been recycled by reactions into other chemicals. the locations of oil fields tend to be where organic matter collected at the deltas of major drainage millions of years ago - the shores of the central sea that ran through the middle of North America; the Orinoco delta; the Mesopotamian delta; the North Sea, drainage from northern Europe; and so on. One item I read said that until grass evolved, the plant coverage did less to prevent erosion and run-off, so sedimentary accumulations were much higher. (Which also explains the presence of many dinosaur fossils, because mudslides and buried carcasses would have been much more common back then.) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246/20 "2015-03-19T17:20:17Z")
> [@Obtenebrate](#): > > Uh, the hydrocarbon seas on Titan were “almost certainly” laid there by dinosaurs? That is a sort of typo-like error where I left out a “not”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fossil-fuel-replenishment/715246.md?page=2)