# Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 22, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557 "2012-03-22T23:40:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/21 "2012-03-23T17:26:13Z")
Pages 23-47 For starters. I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/22 "2012-03-23T17:40:12Z")
I love Eco, I love this thread, I love this board. \<3 ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/23 "2012-03-23T20:53:08Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Wasn’t that sequence revealed to be a hallucination during the final confrontation in the High Temple of Tlön? I think that was deliberately left ambiguous: how much of it had actually happened, and how much of it was a fragment of Foucault’s consciousness still trapped in the Uqbar Simulacrum? IIRC, the workaround for the nanites not functioning outside of Foucault himself was the effective duplication of his personality in the Simulacrum: the Monks were trying to stop the Vampires installing these denatured Foucaults replicas in the Clockwork Legion, which would have allowed for the creation of an entire army of brass and steel assassins. The Zeppelin crash put an end to the process, but presumably a remnant of Foucault’s consciousness remained within Uqbar, and it may have been that which dreamed the more perfervid sequences; Eco is notorious for his unreliable narrators. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/24 "2012-03-23T22:03:56Z")
The Tres Society is monitoring this thread. Tread carefully. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/25 "2012-03-23T22:36:34Z")
> [@Beastly\_Rotter](#): > > I think that was deliberately left ambiguous: how much of it had actually happened, and how much of it was a fragment of Foucault’s consciousness still trapped in the Uqbar Simulacrum? TBH, I never really got my head around the sequences in the Simulacrum. You could be right. But I think we’re drifting a bit from the OP’s request. Not much of the flashy tech in the story really has much bearing on science as such: the Uqbari biotech is mostly a plot device; Eco could just as well have said “a wizard did it” 95% of the time. And while the sequences navigating the telluric currents aboard the _Orbis Tertius_ were incredibly vivid, they pretty much amounted to “travel by map”. What the OP’s prof is probably looking for (which you can see symbolized pretty heavy-handedly in the Clockwork Legion’s mechanistic thought) is Eco’s contention that scientific progress depends on intuitive leaps, and that this progress is threatened by excessive pedantry. Besides the Legion, this comes through most clearly in Oh, man talk about a spoiler OP, really, you should read the book, because this is one of the great moments of 20th century literature and it’s so much better to come across it cold Diotallevi’s speech to Foucault in which he reveals that he and Belbo have been working for the Comte right along. Obviously, Diotallevi is a villain, but he’s clearly speaking for the author. And Foucault’s inability to intuit that he was at the center of a scheme almost cost him and the world everything. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/26 "2012-03-23T22:51:36Z")
> [@Beastly\_Rotter](#): > > it is a reference to DNA: the “bifold spiral” is the double helix formation revealed by Crick and Watson; the “mortal juice” is of course the hero’s own semen, taken by the succubus Lamia when she seduced him beneath the Temple of Solomon. This whole chapter deals with the ethical dilemmas of human cloning, when Kaine creates the Forsaken Army in Foucault’s own image. Incidentally, this book is what inspired my username. It’s one of my favorites, although I’d advise most people to just skip the ENDLESS sequence about Nikola Tesla’s supposed death ray. It seems like it’s going to be important later, and then it totally isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/27 "2012-03-23T23:20:35Z")
Yeah, that double-cross was really well-executed by Eco; it took me by surprise. I liked Diotallevi as a character, but I think he was too much of a vehicle for the author’s polemics about the epistemology of science. When they have crashed the Orbis Tertius in the Garden of Forking Paths and are huddled at the back of the hull with the lights of the Cthonosphere flickering above and casting shadows on the wall behind it’s a really evocative passage, almost ruined by Diotallevi’s undergraduate lecture about Plato and the Allegory of the Cave and the limitations of empiricism: you just want to yell, “Dude, there are BIG FUCKING ROBOTS outside.” ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/28 "2012-03-23T23:25:20Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Incidentally, this book is what inspired my username. It’s one of my favorites, although I’d advise most people to just skip the ENDLESS sequence about Nikola Tesla’s supposed death ray. It seems like it’s going to be important later, and then it totally isn’t. I liked Lamia a lot as a character, I think she was quite a neat tie in to Poe and _To Science_: Do not all charms fly At the mere touch of cold philosophy? There was an awful rainbow once in heaven: We know her woof, her texture; she is given In the dull catalogue of common things. Philosophy will clip an Angel’s wings, Conquer all mysteries by rule and line, Empty the haunted air, and gnomed mine Unweave a rainbow, as it erewhile made The tender-person’d Lamia melt into a shade. I think having Poe as an actual character was over-egging the pudding though, even if he was only a shade {_very_ subtle, Eco} within the Simulacrum himself. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/29 "2012-03-24T00:46:05Z")
So were you as pissed as I was about THE ISLAND OF THE DAY BEFORE? The whole time-travel thing was so, so played-out, of course, but mainly what the hell did he do to Belbo? For the first two-thirds I was expecting to find out that Foucault had literally had his personality erased because it was the only way he could trust him, but no, I guess Eco just got bored with him. Such a disappointment. ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/30 "2012-03-24T02:38:36Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > So were you as pissed as I was about THE ISLAND OF THE DAY BEFORE? The whole time-travel thing was so, so played-out, of course, but mainly what the hell did he do to Belbo? For the first two-thirds I was expecting to find out that Foucault had literally had his personality erased because it was the only way he could trust him, but no, I guess Eco just got bored with him. > > Such a disappointment. I think that the whole idea of having “save points” in your life so you could reload to an earlier point if you didn’t like the results of a decision was a nifty one, but undermined by being _far_ too literal: Casaubon just kept on endlessly revisiting yesterday in an attempt to create the perfect day, but rather than making substantive choices he simply dithered over his choice of tie. Maybe that was just a sendup of his dry pedantry, but yeah, I got the feeling that Eco had lost control of his characterisation by then. The Bandersnatch Chrononauts were pretty cool, though, even if they were just an excuse for the temporal duel between Lewis Carroll and H G Wells. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/31 "2012-03-24T03:43:41Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > Then, if you’ll pardon the vehemence, why not read the friggin’ book yourself? Given due diligence it’ll take a week, tops. Oh, come on. This is one of my very favorite books, and has helped shape a lot of my personal worldview - it’s why I actually get angry at conspiracy theories, especially if they involve the Illuminati or the Knights Templar\* - but you gotta admit, it’s a bit dense. Especially the opening Causabon-hiding-in-the-Conservatoire chapter. \*But not the Tres. You don’t fuck with the Tres. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/32 "2012-03-24T05:57:38Z")
One of my favorite parts was where Foucault showed how a human holding a pendulum can defy the laws of physics. Even without exerting any energy, it’s impossible for a human to get a pendulum to stay completely still. The narrator uses this to great effect to solve the mystery of the Templar statue. ---
**Author:** ![enigmatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@enigmatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enigmatic)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/33 "2012-03-24T07:19:37Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t remember any science in there. It’s not about the actual pendulum. While this is true, and while the eventual theme of the work is that science should be rejected in favour of mysticism, the impressive thing is the authors own grasp of it. I mean, for an Elizabethan author, Eco does an amazing job of predicting modern technology, and how it fits into society. Just look at all the stuff about computers! ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/34 "2012-03-24T12:22:03Z")
> [@Beastly\_Rotter](#): > > The Bandersnatch Chrononauts were pretty cool, though, even if they were just an excuse for the temporal duel between Lewis Carroll and H G Wells. While some of the symbolism in the “Second Denouement” section was a little murky to me, I thought that giving both of these famous guys beards (when neither had one) was a brilliant double-entendre reference to Walt Whitman’s brief appearance earlier in the time-travel sequences. Every line in that book contains hidden meanings. ---
**Author:** ![catnoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@catnoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catnoe)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/35 "2012-03-24T18:00:15Z")
I read the book when it came out in the early 90’s? Now I’m going to have to read it again, so much mentioned that I don’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/36 "2012-03-24T20:46:56Z")
> [@catnoe](#): > > I read the book when it came out in the early 90’s? Now I’m going to have to read it again, so much mentioned that I don’t remember. I do hope the OP is paying attention, too. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/37 "2012-03-25T01:02:38Z")
I thought the book was a takeoff on occult conspiracy stuff. Kind of a more intellectual\* Illuminatus Trilogy\*–with less sex & drugs… ---
**Author:** ![Chelonaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chelonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chelonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/38 "2012-03-26T08:47:29Z")
I love this book! I especially like Eco’s take on the old 'Who painted the Mona Lisa´conspiracy woo. It’s a whole musical chairs of forged attribution of renaissance masterpieces. Michelangelo painted the Mona and all Leonardo’s other paintings while Leonardo designed war-machines, no not the failed ones you know about, secret ones that worked! (Eco hints that the elaborate Nazi raid on the tower of London was how they got the plans for the Tiger Tank!) Since Michelangelo thus had no time to make the Sistine chapel, that was all done by Raphael. Raphael’s work was really done by Albrecht Durer and somebody I don’t remember did HIS paintings and drawings. The OP might as well not read Pendulum, I think this thread sums up all the major points :-). ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/39 "2012-03-27T03:17:23Z")
> [@Beastly\_Rotter](#): > > I do hope the OP is paying attention, too. Yes, it would be a real shame if he misinterpreted Belbo’s eloquent disquisition on the Young Fool, and the alchemical importance of extracting the _aqua aureate_ (lit “water of gold”). ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557/40 "2012-03-28T00:58:35Z")
I love this thread. What a great book. If the OP wanted to work in biology, could look at the part in Bologna at the uni where Diotalevi and the pinball-machine-chick have the mock-debate with he long-horse specialist; or in physics, that part at Milan-Malpensa with the treadmill. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foucaults-pendulum-by-umberto-eco/616557.md?page=3)