# Found A Very Old Map......
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [May 12, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611 "2005-05-12T22:41:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/1 "2005-05-12T22:41:16Z")
… of my American hometown, Villa Rica Georgia.
Actually my brother found this map while he and some of his employees were cleaning out one of the many hosiery mills located there.
He says it appears to be a surveyor’s map and is stamped and dated 1901. It is sketched in pencil and colored pencil and is 36x36 inches.
He wants to have copies made and sell them as antiiques, but I was wondering what legalities would be involved before he does this?
Thanks!
Quasi
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/2 "2005-05-12T23:05:00Z")
If it was made by the US Geological Survey or other government agency, then it’s public domain, so you can do whatever you want with it. Of course, since the copyright is so old (1901), there’s a very, very good chance that it’s public domain anyway, even if it wasn’t made by the government.
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### Author:  [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/3 "2005-05-12T23:28:57Z")
I would think that selling modern copies as antiques would be illegal.
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### Author:  [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2005, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/4 "2005-05-12T23:35:30Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#):
>
> … of my American hometown, Villa Rica Georgia.
>
> He wants to have copies made and sell them as antiiques, but I was wondering what legalities would be involved before he does this?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Quasi
If he tries to sell the **copies** as ‘antiques’, he can be arrested for fraud.
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### Author:  [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/5 "2005-05-12T23:54:59Z")
No, he wants to offer the copies for _sale_ in an antique store. Sorry if I was unclear in my OP!
Q
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### Author:  [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/6 "2005-05-13T00:15:31Z")
Does it recognize Israel? If not, you’d better not put it on display in the Green Room.
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### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/7 "2005-05-13T09:31:55Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#):
>
> Does it recognize Israel? If not, you’d better not put it on display in the Green Room.
It saw Israel at a party once, but it got caught up in a discussion with the Soviet Union and Yemen.
(This was decades ago, you understand.)
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### Author:  [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/8 "2005-05-13T09:54:04Z")
It was a legitimate question posted in a legitimate forum. Please confine yourselves to legitimate answers. The map is of Villa Rica Georgia, USA. It is from 1901. It has nothing to do with Israel.
What if he had found a coin from that year? Or what if he had fouind a _car_ from that year and restored it and then sold it as an antique? Would that have made it less of an antique, or any less legal? I asked because I was worried about copyright laws, and I asked because we wanted to do things right.
I expect more from this website than idiotic, air-headed answers such as these. Either help me with the question or ignore it if you can’t. I have linked my brother to this topic, and he has no idea what The Dope is all about. What do you think he’s gonna think when he reads this? :wally
Thanks to those of you who have provided well though-out answers and once again I apologize for not being clear enough in the OP.
Quasi
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### Author:  [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/9 "2005-05-13T11:50:00Z")
Two issues here. First, as \friedo\ said, works by the U. S. Government [are not eligible for U. S. copyright protection](http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#piu).
Second, [Works published before 1923 are in the public domain](http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm).
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/10 "2005-05-13T12:08:58Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#):
>
> Does it recognize Israel? If not, you’d better not put it on display in the Green Room.
Uh… **Gabe**?
Whazzzup?
😕😕😕😕
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/11 "2005-05-13T12:28:35Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#):
>
> Does it recognize Israel? If not, you’d better not put it on display in the Green Room.
**CynicalGabe**. Perhaps you could share your random thoughts in another forum. This is General Questions.
Quit doing this.
**samclem** GQ moderator
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### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/12 "2005-05-13T12:33:34Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#):
>
> What if he had found a coin from that year? Or what if he had fouind a _car_ from that year and restored it and then sold it as an antique? Would that have made it less of an antique, or any less legal?
The equivalent of selling copies of the map would be selling replica coins, or a modern car built to a 1901 design. None are actual antiques, and to call them that would be a breach of the law in any respectable jurisdictions. In your case, only the original map is an antique.
Selling truthfully-identified copies of old maps, however, is a legitimate and common trade, provided they’re not in copyright (or provided you have clearance from the copyright holder).
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### Author:  [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/13 "2005-05-13T14:16:39Z")
I work in a museum. We sell copies of antique maps of the town in which I live, originally printed in 1896.
I would suggest taking a copy to your local historical society. They may be able to give your more information. They _could_ be able to tell you about the copyright issues. They also may want to take a copy for their own archives.
As a wild guess, I would say that a hand-drawn survey map probably wouldn’t be copyrighted. Is there a signiature, or indication of which company made it?
I would suppose he’d be legally in the clear if not. As **friedo** said, it’s probably old enough to have taken care of any copyright that once existed.
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### Author:  [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/14 "2005-05-13T14:26:26Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#):
>
> It was a legitimate question posted in a legitimate forum. Please confine yourselves to legitimate answers. The map is of Villa Rica Georgia, USA. It is from 1901. It has nothing to do with Israel.
>
> What if he had found a coin from that year? Or what if he had fouind a _car_ from that year and restored it and then sold it as an antique? Would that have made it less of an antique, or any less legal? I asked because I was worried about copyright laws, and I asked because we wanted to do things right.
>
> I expect more from this website than idiotic, air-headed answers such as these. Either help me with the question or ignore it if you can’t. I have linked my brother to this topic, and he has no idea what The Dope is all about. What do you think he’s gonna think when he reads this? :wally
>
> Thanks to those of you who have provided well though-out answers and once again I apologize for not being clear enough in the OP.
>
> Quasi
Aside from Gabe’s weirdness, I think many people are concerned about this statement in your OP:
> [@](#):
>
> He wants to have copies made and **sell them as antiiques,** but I was wondering what legalities would be involved before he does this?
As others have said, making copies are A-OK.
Selling these copies is A-OK.
However, labeling these copies as “antique maps” rather than “modern reproductions of an antique map” is fraud, and not OK.
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### Author:  [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/15 "2005-05-13T15:06:46Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#):
>
> Uh… **Gabe**?
>
> Whazzzup?
>
> 😕😕😕😕
Gabe’s making reference to a joke from the TV show “The West Wing,” about an old map.
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### Author:  [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/16 "2005-05-13T15:10:04Z")
I believe that I have previously corrected my earlier gaffe by stating he wants to sell them in an antique _store_ , not as antiques per se. I regret the mistake and hope this clears up the original OP.
Thank you once again for your answers, and again, we just want to do the right thing, and I thought that posting here would give us the answers we needed to make our choice.
Of course, we do not consider any of you as definitive _authorities_ in this matter. We just wanted your opinions.
Q
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### Author:  [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/17 "2005-05-13T15:33:16Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#):
>
> Actually my brother found this map while he and some of his employees were cleaning out one of the many hosiery mills located there.
My concern would be with the ownership of the map your brother found. Wouldn’t anything found in a mill belong to the mill owner?
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### Author:  [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/18 "2005-05-13T16:51:13Z")
> [@samclem](#):
>
> **CynicalGabe**. Perhaps you could share your random thoughts in another forum. This is General Questions.
>
> Quit doing this.
>
> **samclem** GQ moderator
As was stated by anothe poster, I was referring to an episode of _West Wing_. An amusing reference, not a random thought.
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### Author:  [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/19 "2005-05-13T18:34:53Z")
what do you mean by a “Survey map”?
If it was made and signed by a surveyor for the purpose of registering land parcels , then there should be a copy of it in the county courthouse archives. Buyers of the parcels may have referred to this map in their title deeds.
So it may be in the public domain.
there is a web site/message board for professional land surveyors that might (or might not!) be relevant:
[http://www.i-boards.com/bnp/pob/](http://www.i-boards.com/bnp/pob/)
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### Author:  [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/found-a-very-old-map/303611/20 "2005-05-13T20:31:31Z")
-
-
- Yea, but suppose… you got some guy who was born before 1923 to draw copies of it… using old paper and pencils…
~