# Foundation (by Apple) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 24, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164 "2018-08-24T03:29:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/1 "2018-08-24T03:29:48Z")
> **[Apple moves forward with its adaptation of Isaac Asimov's 'Foundation'](https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/23/apple-foundation-series-order/?yptr=yahoo)** > > Apple has placed a series order for Foundation, an adaptation of Isaac Asimov’s classic series of science fiction stories and novels. Deadline reported earlier this year that the show was in development, but this was just the latest of several... PLEASE don’t screw it up. One of my all-time favorite reads was this trilogy (and the three pre-quel novels). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/2 "2018-08-24T04:06:06Z")
I’m cautiously curious and optimistic about this. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/3 "2018-08-24T05:20:49Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > [https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/23/apple-foundation-series-order/?yptr=yahoo](https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/23/apple-foundation-series-order/?yptr=yahoo) > PLEASE don’t screw it up. One of my all-time favorite reads was this trilogy (and the three pre-quel novels). My introduction to science fiction when I was a little kid (well after Heinlein of course), they are great stories and if well done will appeal. One appeal of the books is the sense of space, space to think and that IMO would preclude a slow atmospheric movie rather than an action one. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/4 "2018-08-24T14:36:33Z")
Awesome if done well. If not, the horror, the horror. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/5 "2018-08-24T15:31:01Z")
I loved the stories when I read them originally, but I re-read some of it a couple years ago and they have not aged well. In particular, the whole premise - that the course of history can be predicted - seems contrary to what chaos theory tells us. Now, I know chaos theory doesn’t mean everything is chaotic (e.g. a controlled system like the Jurassic Park is not subject to it) but it’s hard to argue that human history isn’t a non-linear system that’s highly sensitive to initial conditions. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/6 "2018-08-24T16:14:47Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > I loved the stories when I read them originally, but I re-read some of it a couple years ago and they have not aged well. In particular, the whole premise - that the course of history can be predicted - seems contrary to what chaos theory tells us. Now, I know chaos theory doesn’t mean everything is chaotic (e.g. a controlled system like the Jurassic Park is not subject to it) but it’s hard to argue that human history isn’t a non-linear system that’s highly sensitive to initial conditions. It’s been a while since I read them, but I seem to recall your objection was a big part of the plot. In other words, history _couldn’t_ be predicted. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/7 "2018-08-24T16:41:07Z")
At some point I counted the women in the first book. Three, maybe? Women who had a speaking part was either zero or one, I can’t remember. One woman showed up mainly to demonstrate the glorious future in which miniaturized nuclear power plants meant that a housewife could fit an entire laundry **into a closet**! So, uh, hoping they’ll update the books a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/8 "2018-08-24T20:28:38Z")
Especially since most of the characters don’t have any particular reason they need to be male. There’d be no harm in just gender-swapping a few of them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/9 "2018-08-24T20:29:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Especially since most of the characters don’t have any particular reason they need to be male. Most of the characters, IIRC, have no particular personality at all. Asimov did some amazing things and had some spectacular ideas, but he wasn’t exactly a brilliant observer of the human condition. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/10 "2018-08-24T20:39:00Z")
So Apple is creating this series? How is it going to be distributed? Are they going to sell it on their Store? A new streaming service? Are Android people just going to be out of luck? ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/11 "2018-08-24T20:49:32Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > So Apple is creating this series? How is it going to be distributed? Are they going to sell it on their Store? A new streaming service? Are Android people just going to be out of luck? They’ll have to wait for the Robots stories to be made. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/12 "2018-08-24T21:15:10Z")
Yeah, my first reaction was “Whaaa…?” I loved the books, but even as a high schooler I knew they were deep… but boring. They’re going to need some major surgery to make them watchable, but then the nerds’ll be all over Reddit/4chan/SDMB panning them. As an Apple stockholder, they should’ve asked me. I would’ve said "Hey, you can make movies and cars and hoverboards … _after_ you put out a great, fast, cheap computer. With ports. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/13 "2018-08-24T22:10:17Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > So Apple is creating this series? How is it going to be distributed? Are they going to sell it on their Store? A new streaming service? Are Android people just going to be out of luck? They’ll just have to settle for dreaming of electric sheep… ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/14 "2018-08-24T22:39:12Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > It’s been a while since I read them, but I seem to recall your objection was a big part of the plot. In other words, history _couldn’t_ be predicted. OK that’s true, but I think that only becomes part of the plot in the 3rd book. And if I remember correctly, I think the story was that history could be predicted unless a significant unpredictable anomaly occurred, like a mutant telepath trying to conquer the galaxy. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/15 "2018-08-24T23:00:07Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > OK that’s true, but I think that only becomes part of the plot in the 3rd book. And if I remember correctly, I think the story was that history could be predicted unless a significant unpredictable anomaly occurred, like a mutant telepath trying to conquer the galaxy. The Second Foundation was set up at the same time as The Foundation in order to secretly make in-course corrections to address the unpredictability of history. The Mule was just too big of a disturbance to correct for before the opening of Seldon’s Vault. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/16 "2018-08-25T00:18:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > but he wasn’t exactly a brilliant observer of the human condition. As I recall, Asimov’s vision of Trantor–a completely enclosed, world-spanning city, with zero need to ever leave its confines–came from his idea of an ideal place to live. Turns out that most people aren’t agoraphobes and look at Trantor with moderate horror. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/17 "2018-08-25T01:12:59Z")
Semi-cute story. Shortly after I’d graduated college a friend informed me that his statistic professor was planning to base his lecture of that day on the opening section of “Foundation”. Having read the (then) trilogy a few times in my (then) 23 years, I accompanied my friend to the class. The professor saw me and said “Mr. Dub, I was under the impression that you had graduated from this institution.” I replied that I had but when I’d heard that he was planning to speak on the “Foundation” books, I felt compelled to “drop in” as I considered myself a bit of an expert on them as well. So he gives his lecture about 45 minutes into the hour he makes some point about the necessity to keep the population as a whole in the dark about the fact that their behavior is being psychohistorlcally analyzed. And I said: “I don’t think so.” So he talks about the great secret and if the fact that the use of psychohistory isn’t the secret, what possibly could be. I replied: “Well, if the secret of psychohistory isn’t that it could predict the future, every citizen of the Second Foundation knew that, and if it wasn’t the general nature of those predictions, Bel Riose knew that, I suggest that the only possible thing remaining that could be the secret of psychohistory would be psychohistory _itself_, that is, to say, the statistical methodology by which those predictions are made.” Pause. “Perhaps because the possession and use of that statistical methodology by multiple groups, groups that would, over time, invariably work at cross purposes, could introduce variables into the equations with which even psychohistory would be unable to cope.” He just looks at me and says: “Interesting theory.” And goes right on. Let’s just say I’m glad he’d never have the chance to grade me again. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-by-apple/820164/18 "2018-08-25T13:20:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **LHoD** : > > Most of the characters, IIRC, have no particular personality at all. Asimov did some amazing things and had some spectacular ideas, but he wasn’t exactly a brilliant observer of the human condition. I’ve heard the criticism that the few female characters Asimov did write had no personality. Which is an odd complaint, because his two most prominent female characters (Dr. Susan Calvin and Arkady) both had a heck of a lot more personality than most of his male characters. And most of the other characters with interesting personalities don’t have any gender at all (he makes it clear in one of his stories that, although most robots answer to gendered (usually male) pronouns, they do so solely for the sake of the humans they interact with, not from any inherent identity).