# Foundation: TV series discussion (open spoilers; comparison to the books allowed) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, apple\ **Created:** [September 25, 2021, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328 "2021-09-25T13:28:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/21 "2021-09-29T16:32:43Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > Also, is there a movie with Lee Pace where he is not creepy? Not a movie, but have you seen _Pushing Daisies_? ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/22 "2021-09-29T16:38:15Z")
No I haven’t. I meant TV or movies, I liked Halt and Catch Fire. He was creepy there too. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/23 "2021-09-29T17:12:57Z")
Started to watch it, my wife got bored about 15 minutes into the first episode, I would’ve lobbied her to keep watching except for the scene were Salvor “violence is the last refuge of the incompetent” Harding is seen with a gun longer than she is, I couldn’t muster the will to do it TBH. May try again later, if reviews are good. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/24 "2021-10-02T17:03:30Z")
It appears my fears are coming to fruition a bit. Ep3 was even more slow than Ep2. The Empire stuff is far more interesting than what’s happening on Terminus. And they are really dragging out what’s going on in Terminus. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/25 "2021-10-04T20:22:09Z")
I just got to watch episode 3. I agree the Terminus stuff is really boring. But the Empire stuff is really good. I’m willing to continue. As an aside, I really hate some tropes we see in sci-fi movies (or series in this case). Terminus is weirdly a mix of hi-tech and no tech. The streets are mud. The population seems to be living a rustic lifestyle. But spaceships land as a matter of course. They have hi-tech gizmos. Yet they live in near squalor. They are meant to be the last bastion to save human society and culture from the fall but they already live like a fallen society, barely surviving and eking out a meager living. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2021, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/26 "2021-10-04T22:58:00Z")
I have come to terms with the fact that aside from Trantor being the capital of the Empire, and Terminus being about as far from Trantor as one can get and still be in the Galaxy, virtually nothing is going to be based on the books. This has reduced my desire to throw things at the television. Actually, I have hopes that this will be fairly well done. It ain’t gonna be Asimov’s Foundation, but at least it will (probably) be more true to the original than, say, Starship Troopers. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/27 "2021-10-04T23:10:36Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > Actually, I have hopes that this will be fairly well done. It ain’t gonna be Asimov’s Foundation, but at least it will (probably) be more true to the original than, say, Starship Troopers. Gotta say I liked the “Starship Troopers” movie but I 100% get that it had almost nothing to do with the book. (the sequels really sucked) ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/28 "2021-10-04T23:15:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Terminus is weirdly a mix of hi-tech and no tech. The streets are mud. The population seems to be living a rustic lifestyle. But spaceships land as a matter of course. They have hi-tech gizmos. Yet they live in near squalor. > > They are meant to be the last bastion to save human society and culture from the fall but they already live like a fallen society, barely surviving and eking out a meager living. Agreed that it’s a weird setting on Terminus. These people are supposed to be cataloging the vast knowledge of the entire Empire into an Encyclopedia Galactica, but they’re busy conducting committee meetings in squalor to decide which of two extremely simple and primitive time-keeping devices to include in their project? And how many decades are they in to this work? Like WTF? It was always going to be a challenge bringing this series to a visual medium and I’m sure I’ll watch it all, but I feel like, if nothing else, this should have been a _smart_ series, about _smart_ and/or _powerful_ people tackling gigantic problems and all the complications that entails (without giving too much away on future plot). The first episode did a pretty good job of that and the Empire stuff still does somewhat, but it’s starting to feel like a lot of smarts got ejected for drama and it’s not making for a very compelling story. Even knowing the twists that are potentially coming, if they stick somewhat closely to the books, I’m already not that compelled to care about “the good guys”. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2021, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/29 "2021-10-04T23:28:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Not a movie, but have you seen _Pushing Daisies_ ? He’s also not all that creepy in Wonderfalls. By which I mean I think he is very, very slightly creepy despite playing a character who isn’t at all supposed to be creepy 🙂 . Lee Pace does have a vibe, I gotta say. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/30 "2021-10-05T19:23:42Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > But the Empire stuff is really good. Though, as the first episode mentioned, the Empire is not long for this world. So at some point they’ll have to shift to Terminus full time… hopefully Terminus is not dull by then 🙂 . ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/31 "2021-10-05T21:40:48Z")
Nothing says they can’t go back to Trantor (the books did, more than once). It just won’t be _Imperial_ Trantor. If they do, I kind of imagine what we’ll see will resemble the aftereffects of the Star Bridge collapse. I find myself kind of envying my daughter, who said she’ll wait till there are a few more eps available then binge it. Since she never read the books, she won’t be burdened with trying to reconcile plot elements and characters (I’m looking at you, Salvor Hardin). ---
**Author:** ![TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thegunismightierthanthepen/32/2981_2.png) [@TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheGunIsMightierThanThePen)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/32 "2021-10-06T01:45:33Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > I have come to terms with the fact that aside from Trantor being the capital of the Empire, and Terminus being about as far from Trantor as one can get and still be in the Galaxy, virtually nothing is going to be based on the books. This has reduced my desire to throw things at the television. Yeah, I’m kind of wishing I had not read the first two books before starting the show, it’s just ruining the whole thing for me. I didn’t mind the gender and racial swaps of the characters so much, and having the emperors be a series of clones is an interesting concept, but the show’s writers are making the characters act, well, way _out of character_ compared to their roles in the books, and it’s terribly jarring for me. Admittedly, the visuals are very nice, but is it really necessary to shove in pointless sex scenes that advance the plot nowhere, just to cater to horny 20s-something viewers? And WTF was up with the scene where Seldon is graphically stabbed to death? > [@OttoDaFe](#): > > Actually, I have hopes that this will be fairly well done. Here’s where you and I go our separate ways. I’m doubtful this series will ascend beyond trainwreck status, but who knows, maybe the next several episodes will prove me wrong. Right now I’m watching more out of morbid curiosity, like commuters slowly passing by a car crash. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/33 "2021-10-06T15:43:25Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > Nothing says they can’t go back to Trantor (the books did, more than once). It just won’t be _Imperial_ Trantor. If they do, I kind of imagine what we’ll see will resemble the aftereffects of the Star Bridge collapse. Yeah, but the Imperial parts of the Trantor story are the most interesting. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/34 "2021-10-09T18:43:18Z")
> [@TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](#): > > I’m doubtful this series will ascend beyond trainwreck status, but who knows, maybe the next several episodes will prove me wrong. Right now I’m watching more out of morbid curiosity, like commuters slowly passing by a car crash. It is seeming more and more likely that this is the case. But at the very least, the show is definitely going no where fast. They really like drawing things out. Looks pretty but soulless and dull. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/35 "2021-10-09T19:11:50Z")
I agree. I watched the most recent episode and, if I had not read the books, I would have no freaking idea what the plot is. Yeah, they vaguely setup Seldon and the Foundation as predicting the future and the fall of the empire but only barely. The show is now like a camera on my life if I knew everything was going to go to shit in 500 years (I would not do much of anything differently). I promise that show would be deadly dull. I still hate all things on Terminus (which feels a lot like Mos Eisley from Star Wars…actually less than that) and enjoy the Trantor stuff much better. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/36 "2021-10-09T20:05:42Z")
They may be setting up for something interesting with Dawn and the dispute between Day and Dusk. I’ll stick around. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2021, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/37 "2021-10-16T11:40:48Z")
We have firmly moved into “random story using Asimov’s Foundation books as the setting” territory. Which is ok, I guess, since the Foundation books were pretty dry, lacked action, and were as much about Imperial politics as anything. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/38 "2021-10-16T14:09:55Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > We have firmly moved into “random story using Asimov’s Foundation books as the setting” territory. Exactly my thought after this last episode. It reminds me of the _Starship Troopers_ movie. Same character names and general situations, but little adherence to the spirit of the book. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/39 "2021-10-16T20:15:39Z")
I’ve only made it two episodes, but I don’t think I’ll go any further. It seems to me that this series is trying to be Game of Thrones in space. The gratuitous violence visuals were not needed in my opinion and I really hope this trend in storytelling reverses itself soon. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2021, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/40 "2021-10-16T21:51:57Z")
I don’t remember anything particularly graphic—what are you referring to? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328.md?page=3)