# Foundation: TV series discussion (open spoilers; comparison to the books allowed) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, apple\ **Created:** [September 25, 2021, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328 "2021-09-25T13:28:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2021, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/41 "2021-10-16T21:53:48Z")
Kinda curious myself. Worst I can think of is Emperor Day having the painter killed and Seldon being killed…which was in the book. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2021, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/42 "2021-10-17T00:03:50Z")
About all I can think of is the summary execution of the ambassadors’ retinues. But I haven’t watched the last two installments yet. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/43 "2021-10-17T15:40:26Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > > > We have firmly moved into “random story using Asimov’s Foundation books as the setting” territory. > > Exactly my thought after this last episode. It reminds me of the _Starship Troopers_ movie. Same character names and general situations, but little adherence to the spirit of the book. At the risk of sounding like a dittohead, after catching up I must agree with the above. At least in _ST_ the conflict driving the plot (human v bug) survived in the movie; here, I’m not at all sure this will be the case. At least the Empire functionary sent to Terminus was named Dorwin. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2021, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/44 "2021-10-18T13:23:02Z")
This show seems to be telling the story in the slowest way possible. Seriously, the last 3 episodes could have been cut to 1 episode (and probably should have). Though it remains very, very pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/45 "2021-10-23T04:12:33Z")
I just watched the latest episode and the pace seems to be picking up a bit. I’m still not a huge fan of what is happening on Terminus but it is getting more interesting. For those who have seen it I am curious about Demerzel’s action near the end of the episode (I will leave it at that for now…spoilers since the episode only just came out). It seems an important moment. Also, what’s up with Brother Dawn? ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/46 "2021-10-23T09:28:36Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Also, what’s up with Brother Dawn? It appears that there may be some genetic drift. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/47 "2021-10-23T16:39:10Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > It appears that there may be some genetic drift. He’s colorblind, but _better_ at hunting than Dusk? Seems contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/48 "2021-10-23T17:34:27Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > He’s colorblind, but _better_ at hunting than Dusk? Seems contradictory. The animals they were hunting used their coloring for camouflage. Being color-blind actually made it easier for him to spot them. AFAIK this is actually a thing. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/49 "2021-10-23T18:35:10Z")
Dusk told Dawn to look for the movement, not the colour, foreshadowing the whole colourblind thing. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/50 "2021-10-23T19:14:37Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > It appears that there may be some genetic drift. I wonder if they’re still using DNA from Cleon I, or from later Cleons. Would Day & Dusk really have Dawn euthanized and start over? ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/51 "2021-10-23T20:50:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > For those who have seen it I am curious about Demerzel’s action near the end of the episode (I will leave it at that for now…spoilers since the episode only just came out). It seems an important moment. I had a hard time with that too… perhaps she’s changing her allegiance in some way? Of course, the real question is: how close is she to book-Demerzel, and if close, what does R. Daneel Olivaw think of the path the Empire is taking? Does this represent a moment like the passing of the Mandate of Heaven? > [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > Also, what’s up with Brother Dawn? > > It appears that there may be some genetic drift. I wonder if we’re going to see the Imperial line splitting into multiple lineages. Perhaps this would allow “The General” from _Foundation and Empire_ to be played closer to the original story? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/52 "2021-10-23T22:06:41Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I just watched the latest episode and the pace seems to be picking up a bit. I’m still not a huge fan of what is happening on Terminus but it is getting more interesting. I would argue it’s only slightly more interesting. The Empire stuff is by far the better plotline. I still don’t really care about Hardin, which seems to not be a good thing because I think they really want me to. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/53 "2021-10-23T22:12:52Z")
Olivaw has been around a loooong time. IIRC “he” follows the three rules of robotics but mainly follows a fourth law, the “Zeroth Law” which he feels is a natural consequence of the three laws. As such, his role has always been to nudge humanity this way or that to help humanity overall but subtly, from the shadows by being close to people in power and affecting them. No idea if that is the case in the TV series though. So far we know almost nothing about Demerzel and her motivations and loyalties. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/54 "2021-10-23T22:30:04Z")
Side question: Who or what are the weird attendants floating aboard the spaceships—the ones that tuck passengers into their pods for the hyperjump? Are they highly modified humans (for what reason?) or robots? (And I guess, by the way Demerzel talks, it’s just a given that robots are around and NBD, and not something that was completely wiped from human memory by R. Daneel Olivaw?) Or …? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/55 "2021-10-23T22:33:22Z")
Brother Day mentions the spaceship attendants are modified humans and says he barely considers them human at all. Apparently they can stay awake and run the ship during jumps. Something Demerzel tells Brother Day trying the same would wreck his mind. Regarding Demerzel: I _think_ all robots are long gone. Wiped out by humans. Olivaw is the last one left and he hides his true nature most of the time (obviously the Emperors know but I think they are the only ones). ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/56 "2021-10-23T22:56:18Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Apparently they can stay awake and run the ship during jumps. The hyperdrive in the original Asimov books didn’t seem to affect humans (except for the fact that, for a little while, they didn’t exist), but it did remind me of the effect of the Alderson Drive in Pournelle’s CoDominium books (e.g. _The Mote in God’s Eye_). I wonder if that’s where it came from? Also, the jump ships’ gimbal-mounted fast-spinning gyroscopic rings were reminiscent of the wormhole generator setup in the movie _Contact_. I wonder if that’s becoming visual shorthand for hyperspace travel? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I _think_ all robots are long gone. Wiped out by humans. There was a mention in a previous episode of the “Robot Wars” in a context that made it seem like it was an earlier stage of the Empire, and I think it was said that Demerzel was the sole survivor. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/57 "2021-10-23T23:03:35Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > The hyperdrive in the original Asimov books didn’t seem to affect humans (except for the fact that, for a little while, they didn’t exist), but it did remind me of the effect of the Alderson Drive in Pournelle’s CoDominium books (e.g. _The Mote in God’s Eye_ ). I wonder if that’s where it came from? As an aside: I can’t remember where I read it but I recall a sci-fi book where people had to be put to sleep when a jump drive was used because, although the ship seemed to move between two points instantly, an awake mind experienced the full time if would normally take for light to travel that distance. So, if you jumped 200 light years your conscious mind experienced 200 years of being in a void and would be quite insane once they arrived. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2021, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/58 "2021-10-24T00:09:47Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So far we know almost nothing about Demerzel and her motivations and loyalties I also find it odd that a robot is a devotee of a religion. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2021, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/59 "2021-10-24T05:22:33Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > I also find it odd that a robot is a devotee of a religion. Something which is apparently publicly known. 🤨 Even if she weren’t a public figure at the very least generations of palace staff , courtiers, and high dignitaries would know that the Cleons have had the same majordomo for centuries. Demerzel may hide her true nature, but she’s not hiding her identity or changing her appearance (granted that’s probably much to jarring to the Cleons). ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2021, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328/60 "2021-10-24T05:30:31Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > I also find it odd that a robot is a devotee of a religion. Or at least she wants the Cleons to think she’s a devotee of a religion - I’m pretty sure she’s not completely forthright with them. Also, in a world where they clone the Cleons and have them run the Empire generation after generation, would it be implausible that they could tell the people they cloned their majordomo too? Although no one sees the younger/older stages, so maybe people would be suspicious about that [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foundation-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/951328.md?page=4)