# Founding Fathers: how'd this happen?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 19, 2002, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781 "2002-05-19T03:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wfq1513](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/779978/32.png) [@wfq1513](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wfq1513)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/1 "2002-05-19T03:01:36Z")
The U.S. Constitution states that only those citizens born on U.S. soil are eligible to be elected President. So how is it possible George Washington et al. served?? I understand the need to be practical, but it just seems amazing to me that such a clear violation would go unnoticed. Why wasn’t the clause written so that such a requirement would be effective 35+ years after Independence? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/2 "2002-05-19T03:07:19Z")
“No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President…” – Article II, Section 1, [the Constitution of the United States of America](http://www.nara.gov/exhall/charters/constitution/constitution.html) (emphasis added) ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/3 "2002-05-19T03:07:30Z")
actually, I have been informed in previous posts that this is not correct. Those people who were born as US citizens are eligible to become president. For example, being born in a foreign country to one US citizens makes said child eligible for US citizenship. That same child can also legally run for president. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/4 "2002-05-19T03:07:41Z")
Maybe the Amendment refers to “soil which belongs to the U.S. now.” Or maybe there was a lack of elegible 11-year-old candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Wikkit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@Wikkit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wikkit)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/5 "2002-05-19T03:08:28Z")
George Washington was born in Virginia, which is U.S. soil last I checked. I realize that it wasn’t U.S. soil when he was born, but it was when he became president, and I think that’s close enough for government work. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/6 "2002-05-19T03:09:03Z")
There was no United States when the early presidents were born. IIRC Van Buren was the first president born in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![evilhanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba8739/32.png) [@evilhanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilhanz)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/7 "2002-05-19T03:12:23Z")
Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5: > [@](#): > > No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. That clause was waived in the early years. Presidential candidates were considered to be natural born citizens if they were residents of the Colonies when the Constitution was adopted. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/8 "2002-05-19T04:44:38Z")
> [@](#): > > That clause was waived in the early years. Presidential candidates were considered to be natural born citizens if they were residents of the Colonies when the Constitution was adopted. There were no colonies when the Constitution was adopted, just a bunch of sovereign states which were members of the Confederation. (Not to be confused, of course, with the Confederacy :D) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/9 "2002-05-19T05:36:05Z")
The United States existed prior to the enactment of the current U.S. Constitution. Before the adoption of the current Constitution, the governing document was the [Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union](http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/artconf.htm), whose opening words were: > [@](#): > > I. The Stile of this Confederacy shall be “The United States of America”. All of the original 13 colonies subscribed to the “Articles of Confederation,” so anyone who was a citizen of one of those states was a citizen of the United States for the purposes of Article II, section 1, clause 5. There was no need for the clause to be waived - it was drafted to take into account that there were individuals who had not been born when the U.S. existed, but were nonetheless citizens of the U.S. at the time the Constitution was adopted and thus eligible to serve as President. Also, Van Buren was the first President born a citizen of the U.S., but he was not born under the current Consitution. He was born in [1782](http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/mb8.html), during the period of the Articles of Confederation. He nonetheless qualified as a “natural born citizen” of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/10 "2002-05-19T13:34:38Z")
It seems some people need to pay more attention. “a natural born Citizen” does not mean by any means you have to be born on US soil. It means you were born a US citizen and did not acquire the citizenship later by naturalization. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/11 "2002-05-19T13:49:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*It seems some people need to pay more attention. “a natural born Citizen” does not mean by any means you have to be born on US soil. It means you were born a US citizen and did not acquire the citizenship later by naturalization. \*\* Thanks Sailor, that was what I was trying to say. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/12 "2002-05-19T15:08:23Z")
As posted above, the correct answer is that the Constitution was written to allow for this. I’ll try to make this part more obvious than **MEBuckner** , as his post seems to have been ignored. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President…” – Article II, Section 1, [the Constitution of the United States of America](http://www.nara.gov/exhall/charters/constitution/constitution.html) (emphasis added) In other words, the Constitution explicitly states that anyone who was a citizen of the United States when the constitution was adopted (1783) is eligible to be President. This provision also disproves the theory that the “natural born citizen” clause was included to keep Alexander Hamilton (who had been born in the West Indies) from being President, as it wouldn’t have mattered. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/13 "2002-05-19T15:09:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by evilhanz \* > Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5: > > That clause was waived in the early years. Presidential candidates were considered to be natural born citizens if they were residents of the Colonies when the Constitution was adopted. Nothing was waived. The Consititution specifically spelled out the qualities required for presidents: that they **either** be born citizens of the US **or** they **were citizens at the time of the adoption of the Constitution**. Supposing someone were able to live for 300 years and was a citizen of the US at the time the Constitution was ratified, that person could then qualify today for the office of President. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/14 "2002-05-19T18:25:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by evilhanz \* > That clause was waived in the early years. Presidential candidates were considered to be natural born citizens if they were residents of the Colonies when the Constitution was adopted. Your choice of words is factully incorrect. One cannot “waive” a clause of the Constitution just for the heck of it, unless all parties agree to it. So who would have “waived” this clause? Surely not all the candidates for office, along with the entire electorate. (Of course, this does not preclude two specific parties, say in a contract, from waiving their Constitutional rights to a jury trial in case a dispute might erupt between them at a later date and opt for binding arbitration to mediate the dispute. But this is a far cry from “waiving” a monumental clause within the Constitution regarding the eligibility of someone for President.) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/15 "2002-05-19T21:26:01Z")
And as pointed out above, no “waiving” was needed since the exception to the rule was explicitly stated in the same sentence. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/16 "2002-05-19T22:15:12Z")
However there were a few Senators and Representatives, most notably Henry Clay, who served in Congress before the reached the necessary age (25 for the House, 30 for the Senate). I’ve never quite figured that out. I guess it was the first instance of “Don’t ask, don’t tell” in American history. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/17 "2002-05-20T00:44:32Z")
“All parties agreeing to it” doesn’t factor in either; unless, of course, you’re referring to the amendment process. But then, that doesn’t require the agreement of everyone. ---
**Author:** ![bcullman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bcullman/32/8207_2.png) [@bcullman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bcullman)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/18 "2002-05-20T01:36:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JRDelirious \* > \*\*And as pointed out above, no “waiving” was needed since the exception to the rule was explicitly stated in the same sentence. \*\* Exactly. There is no need to further debate this, becuase the Constitution specifically deals with the situation in question. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/19 "2002-05-20T04:05:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > \*\*However there were a few Senators and Representatives, most notably Henry Clay, who served in Congress before the reached the necessary age (25 for the House, 30 for the Senate). > > I’ve never quite figured that out. I guess it was the first instance of “Don’t ask, don’t tell” in American history. \*\* This may be true for some, by the [info](http://www.bellenet.com/clay.html) I find on the Net shows that Clay was born in 1777 and first went into the House in 1811, making him a minimum of 33 at the time. It does say that he went into the state legislature in his 20s. Maybe this is what you’re thinking of. If you have any other examples, please provide a cite. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781/20 "2002-05-20T06:38:21Z")
Glad to provide a cite [http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=C000482](http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=C000482) Henry Clay was born April 12, 1777. His first service in Congress was actually in the Senate to fill out the remainder of John Adair’s term. He was sworn in on November 19, 1806 at the tender young age of 29, a few months shy of the necessary 30. According to this site [http://www.senate.gov/learning/min\_2ee.html](http://www.senate.gov/learning/min_2ee.html) John Eaton of Tennessee is the youngest person ever to serve in the Senate. He was only 28. It’s unclear whether any House members have fudged their ages to get in. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/founding-fathers-howd-this-happen/109781.md?page=2)