# Four Americans Murderd By Somali Pirates-Time to Get Serious? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 22, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256 "2011-02-22T18:17:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/61 "2011-02-23T14:46:44Z")
I’ll fix it for free. Get Obama on the air to read the following: If you want to sail your private yacht around the world, that’s your business. If you come within 1000 miles of Somalia, don’t expect the navy to rescue your sorry ass. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/62 "2011-02-23T16:31:13Z")
Some form of convoying, enhanced use of satellite surveillance to find the pirates and vector warships to intercept, even a blockade of the Somali coast might do some good. And I’d like to see Q-ships reintroduced with a variety of vessel types. The look on the pirates’ faces would be priceless. > **[Q-ship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship)** > > Q-ships, also known as Q-boats, decoy vessels, special service ships, or mystery ships, were heavily armed merchant ships with concealed weaponry, designed to lure submarines into making surface attacks. This gave Q-ships the chance to open fire and sink them. The use of Q-ships contributed to the abandonment of cruiser rules restricting attacks on unarmed merchant ships and to the shift to unrestricted submarine warfare in the 20th century. > They were used by the British Royal Navy and the Germa... ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/63 "2011-02-23T16:39:32Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Why not _hang them_, as general enemies of Mankind, insofar as they seem to be at war with the World? [Hostis humani generis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostis_humani_generis) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/64 "2011-02-23T16:43:03Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Because, as we all know, the American presence (and the UN presence in general) in Mogadishu was a stunning success back in the early 90s. I’m pretty sure they even made a movie about it. I guess nobody got that I was being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/65 "2011-02-23T16:49:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I guess nobody got that I was being sarcastic. I was being sarcastic along with you. I just took out the bit of the sentence I originally wrote that made it more obvious. UNOSOM II didn’t work at all. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/66 "2011-02-23T17:20:09Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > The obvious and cheap solution is that with satellite surveillance we probably know exactly which ports the pirates are operating from. Bought any satellite time lately? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/67 "2011-02-23T17:39:07Z")
As I understand it, the pirates aren’t themselves using military vessels. Therefore, defensive craft needn’t be full-fledged destroyers or other military ships of the line. A century of so back, there used to be such a thing as an armed merchantman. In my admittedly non-expert opinion, escort craft don’t need to be much more than an updated version of the same. A couple reasonably fast ships crewed by navy sailors and with a modicum of suitable armament should be adequate to shoo off boats full of desperate Somalis who are armed with little more than small arms. Armor plating, missile-defense systems and all the other stuff that contribute to the insane expense of modern naval vessels are largely superfluous in a mission like this. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/68 "2011-02-23T17:52:53Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I’m not prepared to surrender to a bunch of bandits. Walk through South Central LA a lot, do you? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/69 "2011-02-23T18:41:40Z")
If cost and politics make fighting piracy a virtual impossibility … do we have to worry about pirates basing themselves in wealthy, more stable countries like the U.S., Japan, or England? Could “copycat pirates” pick off ships coming out of Yokohoma, San Francisco, New York, or Southhampton? Can copycat pirates disrupt shipping in the North Atlantic and the Pacific? Many of the same counterarguments apply. Like the western Indian Ocean, the North Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean are huge expanses of water that presumably would be just as hard to patrol. Come to think of it … there are some Carribean nations that presumably have poor and desperate folks much like Somalia. Is there piracy affecting shipping traffic, say, from New Orleans to Cartagena or Maracaibo? Or pirates going after the many cruise ships in the Carribean? ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/70 "2011-02-23T18:51:32Z")
Why would anyone feel compelled to be a pirate if they could afford to operate in the blue water or high rent districts? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/71 "2011-02-23T19:05:30Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Come to think of it … there are some Carribean nations that presumably have poor and desperate folks much like Somalia. Is there piracy affecting shipping traffic, say, from New Orleans to Cartagena or Maracaibo? Or pirates going after the many cruise ships in the Carribean? I have read at other boards, FWIW, that piracy does exist in that area. Rather than being based on ransom, the point is to seize the vessels (usually private yachts) themselves. The owners are killed and dumped overboard. The boats are used in smuggling and are also sometimes resold. If you go to boards dedicated to boating, it isn’t difficult to find threads discussing the issue. Opinion is divided as to whether it is a good idea to have weapons on board in case you are the target of such piracy. Those who do travel armed seem to favor carrying a pump shotgun and, perhaps, a revolver. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/72 "2011-02-23T19:30:09Z")
There is certainly piracy at sea elsewhere: [http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/01/27/pirates/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/01/27/pirates/index.html) > **[Piracy in the Strait of Malacca](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_in_the_Strait_of_Malacca)** > > Piracy in the Strait of Malacca has long been a threat to ship owners and the mariners who ply the 900 km-long (550 miles) sea lane. In recent years, coordinated patrols by Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, and Singapore along with increased security on vessels have sparked a sharp downturn in piracy. > The Strait of Malacca's geography makes the region very susceptible to piracy. It was and still is an important passageway between China and India, used heavily for commercial trade. The strait is... ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/73 "2011-02-23T19:37:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Which would also cost huge sums of money. And more likely than not result in a ship no one is interested in hiring or buying since it would cost more to run and probably carry less cargo. And still probably wouldn’t even stop the pirates, since small pirate boats are going to be faster than a hulking freighter. Then call the ‘A’ Team. Or do nothing. Americans kill each other in droves, what’s four more? This is certainly not worth invading a country over. But I still think a machine gun on the bow would go a long way in discouraging boarding parties. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/74 "2011-02-23T21:41:03Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Regardless of the people’s foolish actions they are still human beings and deserve to be protected. In addition this is a humiliating sign for our Republic and to show our strength we must take vigourous action. Perhaps a multinational force needs to occupy Somalia (at least outside of the stable governments of Puntland and Somaliland which we should recognize NOW) and then purge all the Islamic Courts and pirates. I realize you hadn’t even been born yet when it happened, but the international community has gone the occupation route before. It [didn’t work very well](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_(1993)). Honestly, the US and UN are about as likely to get involved in Somalia again as the US is to support anti-communist movements in Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/75 "2011-02-23T23:43:54Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > I realize you hadn’t even been born yet when it happened, but the international community has gone the occupation route before. It [didn’t work very well](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_%281993%29). Well yes, but that was then. Now the US armed forces have gained ample experience in winning against irregular forces and a mastery of asymetrical warfare & counter-insurgency, as evidenced by its absolute and quasi-immediate triumphs in Iraq and Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/76 "2011-02-23T23:49:52Z")
I chuckled. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/77 "2011-02-23T23:52:35Z")
:rolleyes: > [@Kobal2](#): > > …as evidenced by its absolute and quasi-immediate triumphs in Iraq and Afghanistan. Are You Serious? That would be like saying the Germans quasi-immediately triumphed in WWII after they overran France. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/78 "2011-02-24T00:29:16Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > :rolleyes: > Are You Serious? I would say it’s extraordinarily unlikely that he is serious. Then again other posters are proposing the solution to piracy is either paying the pirates or invading Somalia, so it may be tell they’re serious and **Kobal2** is joking. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/79 "2011-02-24T01:03:00Z")
What’s the superlative of “woosh” ? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256/80 "2011-02-24T01:20:30Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > If cost and politics make fighting piracy a virtual impossibility … do we have to worry about pirates basing themselves in wealthy, more stable countries like the U.S., Japan, or England? Could “copycat pirates” pick off ships coming out of Yokohoma, San Francisco, New York, or Southhampton? Can copycat pirates disrupt shipping in the North Atlantic and the Pacific? > > Many of the same counterarguments apply. Like the western Indian Ocean, the North Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean are huge expanses of water that presumably would be just as hard to patrol. Yes, except that we have a Coast Guard and naval bases and so forth. Somalia doesn’t have anything like that anymore, which is why piracy became such a problem after the government collapsed. > [@The\_Tooth](#): > > But I still think a machine gun on the bow would go a long way in discouraging boarding parties. Only from the bow. You’d need multiple gun emplacements with night vision equipment (and people tried to use it all) or the pirates would just climb aboard at night or from an angle the guns can’t cover (modern cargo vessels are large). IIRC, one common form of piracy some places is for the pirates to reach the ship, climb aboard and steal stuff without the crew ever even seeing them. Cargo ships don’t have fancy detections systems and are quite large. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-americans-murderd-by-somali-pirates-time-to-get-serious/572256.md?page=5)