# Four chord question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [December 12, 2023, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-chord-question/994455 "2023-12-12T04:17:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-chord-question/994455/41 "2023-12-26T00:03:32Z")
There is no attempt (or reason why there would be an attempt) at an exhaustive list of songs, but I once again recommend a look at _Everyday Tonality II_ for tables of model examples of all kinds of harmonic structures. For example, page 389 lists a bunch of songs that feature shuttles to and from the seventh (I ↔ bVII, i ↔ bVII, etc.) I also mentioned [Songs With The Same Chords](https://www.hooktheory.com/trends) for a big searchable database. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-chord-question/994455/42 "2023-12-26T00:45:05Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Ed Sheeran has posted a short video where he says he can play any song using 4 chords And yet he can’t seem to be able to comb his fucking hair. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-chord-question/994455/43 "2023-12-26T01:42:47Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > For example, page 389 lists a bunch of songs that feature shuttles to and from the seventh Sure. But if you are claiming you need only four chords to play a pop tune, namely, the I, IV, V, vi – you can do that kind of bVII to I vamp with a IV to V vamp, and the bVII to i with a V to vi vamp. It’s cheating, but you can cheat a lot of songs with these kinds of subs (which are discussed a little bit above.) ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-chord-question/994455/44 "2023-12-26T02:23:08Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Sure. But if you are claiming you need only four chords to play a pop tune, namely, the I, IV, V, vi – you can do that kind of bVII to I vamp with a IV to V vamp, and the bVII to i with a V to vi vamp. It’s cheating, but you can cheat a lot of songs with these kinds of subs (which are discussed a little bit above.) Can you provide an example of the cheats with actual chords? I want to make sure I’m following. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-chord-question/994455/45 "2023-12-26T02:36:26Z")
I’m saying, like if someone says you can play a song knowing only, say, the G chord, the C chord, the D chord, and the Em chord – with the caveat that transposition doesn’t matter (i.e. playing in a different key, which is what all these “look at all these pop songs I can play with only these four chords!” do --the key doesn’t matter), you can play a song that rocks between a bVII and a I with the C and D chords there. Or with a bVII and a i with a D and Em. So, let’s say, “A Horse with no Name”. That goes i and bVII the whole song (with some color notes in there). You can do it with a Am and G as the two chords above, transposed. Jane Says by Jane’s Addiction you can do with a C and a D there (though if that a bVII-I or IV-V progression depends on what you think the tonic is.) It will be transposed, though (I believe it’s G and A in the original recording.) I don’t have access to the book mentioned above, but any bVII-I can be duplicated with the C-D progression, as they’re both just a whole step apart. We don’t care about what key the original is in–transposition is fine. When an artist does this type of medley to show how all these songs are the same chords, they stay in the same key. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-chord-question/994455/46 "2023-12-26T12:33:20Z")
Thanks, I appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-chord-question/994455/47 "2023-12-26T15:04:27Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I don’t have access to the book mentioned above Here is the entire table on Page 389; the paragraph is titled “Subtonic shuttles”: > [@](#): > > _ **Subtonic shuttles** _ **(I ↔ ♭VII)** > > As shown in Table 31, shuttles between tonic and subtonic can be divided into three subgroups: [1] I ↔ ♭VII or _mixolydian_; [2] i ↔ ♭VII, which alternates a minor-key tonic with a major chord on the flat seventh; [3] ♭VII ↔ I or _reverse mixolydian_. This third group also includes shuttles which, like subgroup [1] and the Righteous Brothers tune, feature two major triads a whole tone apart but which, as we shall see, can also be heard as belonging to another key (Presley), or to several potential keys (Human League). > > _ **Table 31. Examples of shuttles to and from the seventh** _ > > | _ **Type** _ | _ **Chords** _ | _ **Key** _ | _**Recording (Year)**_ | > | --- | --- | --- | --- | > | I–♭VII | F↔E♭ | F | The Champs: _Tequila_ (1958) | > | | G↔F | G | Shadows: _Wonderful Land_ (intro) (1962) | > | | C↔D | D | Cliff Richard: _Bachelor Boy_ (intro) (1962) | > | | G↔F | G | Kinks: _Tired of Waiting_ (1965) | > | | A↔G | A | Youngbloods: _Get Together_ (1969) | > | | D↔C | D | Brook Benton: _Rainy Night In Georgia_ (intro) (1969) | > | | C♯↔B | C♯ | Dexy’s Midnight Runners: _Geno_ (1980) | > | | D↔C | D | Madness: _House of Fun_ (1982) | > | i–♭VII | Cm↔B♭ | Cm | Albion Country Band: _Van Diemen’s Land_ (1971) | > | | Am↔G | Am | Bothy Band: _Farewell to Erin_ (1976) | > | ♭VII–I | B♭/c↔C | C | Righteous Brothers: _You’ve Lost That Loving Feeling_ (1964) | > | | D♭↔E♭ | | Van Halen: _Running With The Devil_ (1978) | > | IV–V | A♭↔B♭ | E♭ | Elvis Presley: _Return to Sender_ (1962) | > | ? | F↔G | Am? | Human League: _Don’t You Want Me Baby_ (1981) | > > There are four obvious common denominators between the shuttles listed in Table 31: [1] there are no shuttles to or from any chord on the major seventh degree; [2] there are no shuttles between the tonic and the _minor_ subtonic because I↔♭vii and i↔♭vii (e.g. E↔Dm) are variants of the _phrygian_ shuttle i/I↔♭II (e.g. E↔F)… ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-chord-question/994455/48 "2023-12-26T15:17:11Z")
Thanks! “Tequila” is the one that I was trying to think of. “On Broadway” also has this rocking, but you can’t do the whole song knowing only four chords, as the progression is moved up a fourth (A-G) to (D-C) and then you have (C-D-E) as a turnaround. It’s not diatonic, anyway, so it wouldn’t fit one caveat mentioned earlier. Neither is a bVII - I progression, but that one could be covered with a IV and V chord. But lots (most songs) won’t fit knowing just four chords, even with cheating some chords a bit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-chord-question/994455.md?page=2)