# Four debates and nobody talked about immigration?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 16, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283 "2008-10-16T22:46:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/21 "2008-10-20T16:30:21Z")
Very few people care much about illegal immigration, when it comes right down to it. But it is one of those issues that is easy to get people whipped up into a frenzy about pretty easily. You can frame it such that it hits quite a few buttons, from “You will lose your job!!!” to “those people talk funny!!!” All it takes is a few ads and suddenly people who before were quietly minding their own business are foaming at the mouths about how the Mexicans are destroying America. It doesn’t hold up to too close of examination, though. In the end, most people recognize that their Latino neighbors hold values that are probably even more “American” than their own family. The Republicans have been using illegal immigration as a tactic to get people out to the polls for quite a few election cycles. This time around they decided to do something different, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/22 "2008-10-20T23:43:47Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Very few people care much about illegal immigration, when it comes right down to it. > > But it is one of those issues that is easy to get people whipped up into a frenzy about pretty easily… How do you square these two statements? ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/23 "2008-10-20T23:59:39Z")
Part of the problem is that people have a great deal of cognitive dissonance when it comes to immigration, both legal and illegal. The same person who is firmly against immigrants making use of public services might very well want to hire them for cash. The feelings around H1Bs are murky and conflicted as well. There is a lot of room for nuance, and a lot of people touched very personally who are in no mood for any nuance. In many ways, it is a minefield. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/24 "2008-10-21T00:12:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Anyways, do McCain and Obama disagree on immigration? > > [McCain on immigration.](http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm) > > [Obama on immigration.](http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/) > > Decide for yourself. So, you can’t tell either, right? Anyway, the correct answer has already been hinted at above: it was a big deal for a while \*because \*Congress was gearing up to address it and everyone disagreed about how to do so. Once that was done, it went back to being a secondary issue. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/25 "2008-10-21T04:21:44Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > How do you square these two statements? The same way you get people to buy stuff they don’t need. Advertising. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/26 "2008-10-21T10:59:39Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > So, you can’t tell either, right? > Anyway, the correct answer has already been hinted at above: it was a big deal for a while \*because \*Congress was gearing up to address it and everyone disagreed about how to do so. Once that was done, it went back to being a secondary issue. IIRC (you like that hedge **Brainy G**?), most of the politicians agreed on what to do, and were close to voting … and then the voters found out and all hell broke loose. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/27 "2008-10-21T11:05:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The “liberal media,” BTW, includes Air America Radio and Democracy Now! and _The Nation_ and _In These Times_ and _Mother Jones._ It does not include CNN, MSNBC, the _New York Times_ or the _Washington Post._ And that is the sort of assertion for which I should hope **no** cite is necessary. One sees the difference? Should we start calling the rest (other than FNC and a few others) the Democrat Favoring Media (Big Time) then? Just because they aren’t as liberal as you or this board in general doesn’t mean they aren’t liberal. How much did the journalists favor Clinton in 1992? Was it like 88-12 or something? Bet the Obama vote is higher now. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/28 "2008-10-21T14:40:51Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Should we start calling the rest (other than FNC and a few others) the Democrat Favoring Media (Big Time) then? > > Just because they aren’t as liberal as you or this board in general doesn’t mean they aren’t liberal. > > How much did the journalists favor Clinton in 1992? Was it like 88-12 or something? Bet the Obama vote is higher now. In this election, at any rate, such media bias as there is [favors McCain, not Obama](http://mediamatters.org/items/200809190012?f=h_top). In broader terms, this is the sort of thing for which no cite is required because the very terms are matters of opinion and you can define the mainstream media as “liberal” simply by setting the goalposts on the left edge of Fox. But when you assert that McCain is to the left of the majority of the American people, relatively and positionally, then a cite is appropriate because you are making a definitely verifiable/falsifiable assertion. And a false one. The American political center-of-gravity today is a **lot** further to the left than you appear to recognize, and inching further leftward slowly but steadily. See [here,](http://people-press.org/report/312/trends-in-political-values-and-core-attitudes-1987-2007) and [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=426042) thread and links therein. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/29 "2008-10-21T14:44:44Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Just because they aren’t as liberal as you or this board in general doesn’t mean they aren’t liberal. > > How much did the journalists favor Clinton in 1992? Was it like 88-12 or something? Bet the Obama vote is higher now. Even if relevant, how is favoring Clinton liberal? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/30 "2008-10-21T14:47:49Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Should we start calling the rest (other than FNC and a few others) the Democrat Favoring Media (Big Time) then? You’re equating voting preferences to coverage, which is a shell game. Not that anybody can ever agree on what media bias is, means, or how to measure it… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/31 "2008-10-21T15:54:12Z")
BTW, [here’s](http://www.whatliberalmedia.com/) the Straight Dope on the “liberal media.” ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/32 "2008-10-21T20:41:28Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Even if relevant, how is favoring Clinton liberal? From now on, I’ll do my best to refer to them as the Democrat Voting Media instead. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/33 "2008-10-21T20:46:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’re equating voting preferences to coverage, which is a shell game. Not that anybody can ever agree on what media bias is, means, or how to measure it… Yep, happy to so equate. You’re among those who believe that the Democrat Voting Media can put aside their biases and cover both candidates fairly apparently. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/34 "2008-10-21T20:47:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > BTW, [here’s](http://www.whatliberalmedia.com/) the Straight Dope on the “liberal media.” Sorry not convinced. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/35 "2008-10-22T09:10:55Z")
Well, obviously at least as far as the debates are concerned, this says more about the hosts of the debates than the candidates. But in general, the public and media only have enough mental space for one or two hot button issues at a time, and they ebb and flow to and from the forefront of our consciousness. Immigration was at the forefront for awhile, but has taken a backseat lately. The war is probably a big issue because the candidates have made it a big point of contention, whereas the economy is at the forefront because of the housing scandal. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/36 "2008-10-23T21:34:45Z")
For the sake of McCain/Palin and their base, it’s rather [fortunate they didn’t](http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NzBmZjg2ZjMxNDExN2I1NGRiMWE5NjMwZWE4NWMwMzE=). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283/37 "2008-10-27T12:51:41Z")
Well, Obama talked about immigration yesterday in New Mexico: He blasted McCain for reversing himself on the immigration-reform legislation he used to support. For his own part, he promised to control the borders, to crack down on employers who hire illegals, and to put those illegals now here on a track to citizenship. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-debates-and-nobody-talked-about-immigration/468283.md?page=1)