# Four Seattle police officers ambushed and shot dead **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369 "2009-11-29T19:53:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/1 "2009-11-29T19:53:42Z")
[CNN Story](http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/29/washington.police.shooting/index.html) Positively horrible, ghasty story. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/2 "2009-11-29T20:14:56Z")
This is very sad. I hope they find these people, and fast. My prayers are with the families and the police department. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/3 "2009-11-29T20:21:17Z")
I just hope the suspects who did it are caught and put in jail, so they can spend the rest of their lives living like heroes among their fellow “bloods” because they “offed a pig”, getting the best contraband alcohol and drugs, “pussy” (raping smaller, weaker men) and in general being treated like warrior-kings - all on your tax dime! Hooray for the justice system! ---
**Author:** ![Taters](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/taters/32/2845_2.png) [@Taters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taters)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/4 "2009-11-29T20:25:13Z")
They are actually Lakewood police officers. Lakewood is about 30 miles south of Seattle. This happened about 10 miles west of where I live. I’ve been watching the story unfold all morning. They have a description of the shooter now. I hope they catch low-life son of a bitch. I am definitely keeping the families and co-workers of these officers in my thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/5 "2009-11-29T20:31:17Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I just hope the suspects who did it are caught and put in jail, so they can spend the rest of their lives living like heroes among their fellow “bloods” because they “offed a pig”, getting the best contraband alcohol and drugs, “pussy” (raping smaller, weaker men) and in general being treated like warrior-kings - all on your tax dime! Washington has the death penalty. I can’t imagine killing four police officers in an ambush wouldn’t qualify. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/6 "2009-11-29T20:35:33Z")
They’ll get the death penalty, all right - after forty years of appeals processes, paperwork, lawyers, etc - plenty of time for them to write manifestos or convert to Islam or host radio shows and attract a horde of radical admirers agitating for their release on the grounds that they were heroic rebels striking back against a systematic racist oppressive force. Either that or they were simply products of poverty and racism and that it’s our society that’s to blame for what they did, and not the killers themselves. It’ll be the year 2525 before they actually get executed. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/7 "2009-11-29T20:55:33Z")
> [@](#): > > They’ll get the death penalty, all right - after forty years of appeals processes, paperwork, lawyers, etc - plenty of time for them to write manifestos or convert to Islam or host radio shows and attract a horde of radical admirers agitating for their release on the grounds that they were heroic rebels striking back against a systematic racist oppressive force. Either that or they were simply products of poverty and racism and that it’s our society that’s to blame for what they did, and not the killers themselves. Has anyone who killed multiple LEO’s ever been treated this way? I can’t think of a single instance. Mumia doesn’t count because the dispute centered on whether he was actually guilty. No one has lionized the DC Sniper that I can think of, no one respectable anyway. He didn’t kill LEO’s, but he killed multiple people, and no one on the Left attempted to defend him that I know of. I doubt that the perps will be taken alive. If they are, no one who’s not crazy will defend them. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/8 "2009-11-29T22:29:07Z")
What the _fuck_. I want to know just what the hell this guy (guys?) thought he was doing. Was this planned? If so, why? Jeez. And this coming so soon after the Halloween ambush and shooting of another police officer in Seattle. It’s disgusting. It looks like we’ve only executed [four people](http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/number-executions-state-and-region-1976) in Washington since 1976, but if the culprit(s) are actually captured alive, it wouldn’t at all surprise me if they were sentenced to death. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/9 "2009-11-29T22:36:00Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > They’ll get the death penalty, all right - after forty years of appeals processes, paperwork, lawyers, etc - plenty of time for them to write manifestos or convert to Islam or host radio shows and attract a horde of radical admirers agitating for their release on the grounds that they were heroic rebels striking back against a systematic racist oppressive force. Either that or they were simply products of poverty and racism and that it’s our society that’s to blame for what they did, and not the killers themselves. > > It’ll be the year 2525 before they actually get executed. You live in a REALLY awful fantasy land. I suggest you go for a walk, and pat a dog on the head or something. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/10 "2009-11-29T22:40:13Z")
Fantasy land? I live in reality, baby. The people who live in fantasy lands are the people who think that “rotting in jail” is actually any kind of punishment for these criminals, and those who actually think that the death penalty in America is used in a timely and efficient way. If sentenced to death, these guys will take decades to actually be executed. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/11 "2009-11-29T22:49:22Z")
> [@Taters](#): > > They are actually Lakewood police officers. Lakewood is about 30 miles south of Seattle. This happened about 10 miles west of where I live. I’ve been watching the story unfold all morning. The article doesn’t say which Forza coffee shop it happened at. I did a google search and it’s either one or two miles from where I grew up, and where my mom still lives. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/12 "2009-11-29T22:52:05Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Fantasy land? I live in reality, baby. The people who live in fantasy lands are the people who think that “rotting in jail” is actually any kind of punishment for these criminals, and those who actually think that the death penalty in America is used in a timely and efficient way. If sentenced to death, these guys will take decades to actually be executed. Well, [the Washington Sniper](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Allen_Muhammad) only took 7 years to execute. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/13 "2009-11-29T23:00:17Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Fantasy land? I live in reality, baby. The people who live in fantasy lands are the people who think that “rotting in jail” is actually any kind of punishment for these criminals, and those who actually think that the death penalty in America is used in a timely and efficient way. If sentenced to death, these guys will take decades to actually be executed. I don’t deny that justice can take a long time, or that criminals are sometimes treated better than they deserve. I’m just suggesting that it is not quite as bad as your exaggerations may paint it, and perhaps you could use a little balance and perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Taters](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/taters/32/2845_2.png) [@Taters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taters)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/14 "2009-11-29T23:02:40Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > The article doesn’t say which Forza coffee shop it happened at. I did a google search and it’s either one or two miles from where I grew up, and where my mom still lives. It happened at the coffee shop located at 11401 So. Steele Street. The whole thing is sad. I know someone who works for the Lakewood PD, and my nephew is a cop, but for a different local PD here. Additionally, the guy who bought our ski boat is a Lakewood police officer. It all hits close to home and I feel incredible sadness for the the officers’ families as well as friends and co-workers. I am sickened by some of the comments people are making on the local news sites here, along with the comments being posted at the local newspaper here. These people fucking died and it angers me that some sick people (not on this site), are taking actual joy in this just because they were cops. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/15 "2009-11-29T23:10:42Z")
You would not believe how many people hate cops just because they’re cops. They don’t even view them as human beings with families and lives, just as some kind of mindless robot who carries out The Law of The System. Anti-cop sentiment is strong among college-age, liberal leaning people, and is tied particularly tightly with radical politics. These people are quick to defend anyone who takes the life of a law officer. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/16 "2009-11-29T23:25:41Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I just hope the suspects who did it are caught and put in jail, so they can spend the rest of their lives living like heroes among their fellow “bloods” because they “offed a pig”, getting the best contraband alcohol and drugs, “pussy” (raping smaller, weaker men) and in general being treated like warrior-kings - all on your tax dime! I would rather they spend their lives in a Supermax prison, being given one hour a day to exercise by walking back and forth in a 12 foot dog run, having no contact with other prisoners, being fed tasteless pap and having limited access to any media or amenities, with nothing to do but kill time by thinking about the actions that brought them to this place. To me, this is more of a hell than any mercifully quick execution would be. > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > You would not believe how many people hate cops just because they’re cops. They don’t even view them as human beings with families and lives, just as some kind of mindless robot who carries out The Law of The System. Anti-cop sentiment is strong among college-age, liberal leaning people, and is tied particularly tightly with radical politics. These people are quick to defend anyone who takes the life of a law officer. _Mr. Pink: You kill anybody? Mr. White: A few cops. Mr. Pink: No real people? Mr. White: Just cops._ [indent][indent][indent][indent]-- _Reservoir Dogs_[/indent][/indent][/indent][/indent] I think the people you describe are a minority and mostly those predisposed (i.e. immature and inexperienced) to be rebellious against any authority. Perpetrators who kill police officers, and especially in an ambush or execution style are typically not granted any kind of leniency in the sentencing process, for both the obvious reason (i.e. the last thing the judiciary needs is to unnecessarily piss off the executive arm of law enforcement) and because someone who will engage in this activity pretty much has no moral or ethical restraints on attacking anyone. (You can forget what you’ve seen in films about noble criminals who restrict their aggression just to those who can defend themselves; the vast majority of violent felons are amoral sociopaths who would sooner kill a grandmother or small child than to skip their morning coffee.) If the perpetrator is identified and captured, he’ll be ‘lucky’ if he doesn’t manage to get slightly dead in the process, and if not, he can be looking at multiple sequential sentences of life without parole for his actions. The system doesn’t always work, but it works better than your portrayal of it, and it is a heck of a lot better than the alternative. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/17 "2009-11-29T23:28:22Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Anti-cop sentiment is strong among college-age, liberal leaning people, and is tied particularly tightly with radical politics. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/18 "2009-11-29T23:37:07Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > :rolleyes: Yeah, I know. It seems like he only has that one brush, doesn’t it? More of a housepainter than a pinstriper, eh. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/19 "2009-11-29T23:39:07Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I would rather they spend their lives in a Supermax prison, being given one hour a day to exercise by walking back and forth in a 12 foot dog run, having no contact with other prisoners, being fed tasteless pap and having limited access to any media or amenities, with nothing to do but kill time by thinking about the actions that brought them to this place. To me, this is more of a hell than any mercifully quick execution would be. But how do you know that’s what his prison experience is going to be like? There is a notorious video of the serial killer Richard Speck, in prison, taking drugs, engaging in homosexual acts, and showing off his breasts (!) which he grew through hormone therapy (!) all of which he was capable of doing behind bars. “If they knew how much fun I was having in here, they’d turn me loose!” is what he said. Now, I know all about the other side of this - how a lot of people claim that Speck wasn’t actually doing this stuff of his own free will; that he was actually someone else’s “bitch” and was being forced to do that shit. But - even if that was actually the case - it still stands that _someone else_ in that prison was able to get away with all that! Someone, whether it was Speck or his “daddy,” was having a grand old time on the taxpayer’s dime. Is this how it’s going to be for the guy who goes away for the cop-killing? I don’t know. What do you think? I want to know what your opinion is of the likelihood of him _actually_ suffering in prison. As a cop killer, he will be a hero to many on the inside. If he has gang connections, he’ll be treated like an emperor. That is, if he’s sufficiently locked away to the point where he’ll be in complete isolation. Is this what’s going to happen? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/20 "2009-11-30T00:04:56Z")
Okay, first of all, Speck was a certified nutcase (who arguably had some neurological defects that probably caused him to behave the way he did). Second, he was scheduled for execution which was deferred because of legitimate issues about the voir dire process with regard to sentencing, and then because the US Supreme Court declared execution to be unConstitutional. Third, that was Illinois, 1971, which was only slightly less corrupt than the worst Hollywood imaginings of New York City of the same era. (“Illinois: Where the zombies rise not to eat brains but to go to the voting stations.”) I can pretty much guarantee that the perpetrators, if captured and convicted, are going to be sentenced to the highest security prison available to the judge for multiple life sentences. There isn’t going to be any kind of fantasy prison joyride that you describe. That’s if he or they survive being captured by peace officers who really aren’t going to hesitate to take any measures they deem necessary to take the offenders down. Stranger [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369.md?page=2)