# Four Seattle police officers ambushed and shot dead **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369 "2009-11-29T19:53:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/321 "2009-12-02T04:21:44Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Yeah, they probably just thought he was a stockbroker down on his luck in this wintery economic climate. Who was gut shot. :rolleyes: Do they prosecute relatives for helping a fugitive? Will they incarcerate his parents and siblings? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/322 "2009-12-02T04:51:44Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Here’s tentative for you: [ Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post > And how do you know these cops didn’t have it coming?] Quote taken out of context. Gratuitously. Let’s replay it in full to -you know- fight ignorance and everything. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Jesus, AT, you are in la la land. If you’re this unhappy with our Constitutional system, you’re welcome to leave the country. Maybe Saudi Arabia would be more your speed. > > And how do you know these cops didn’t have it coming? I read that last sentence as saying we don’t know squat -we can’t rule out squat- when the news story is a few hours old. So rantings about how the perp was going to be living the high life in prison yada yada were shall we say premature, deranged perceptions aside. To be complete DtC followed it up with saying that we _couldn’t_ rule something like that out, given that reports said that they were “targeted”. Or, as DtC _qualified_: “It makes me wonder. Or maybe I’ve just read too many James Elroy novels.” Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/323 "2009-12-02T04:59:01Z")
Well, I used to try and tell **Dio** about how you attract more flies with sugar than with vinegar. Then he asks me why I want to attract flies in the first place, and wouldn’t shit work better than any of them? So he’s a smart-ass. A lot of us can relate. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/324 "2009-12-02T05:06:46Z")
Just popping in to say good fucking riddance to that piece of human trash. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/325 "2009-12-02T05:10:50Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > One thing is certain. This asshole shooters “friends” are not going to have a very happy time ahead of them. Seriously. Aiding and abetting a cop killer is not a particularly great plan for success. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/326 "2009-12-02T05:29:02Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Quote taken out of context. Gratuitously. Let’s replay it in full to -you know- fight ignorance and everything. I read that last sentence as saying we don’t know squat -we can’t rule out squat- when the news story is a few hours old. Responding to hyperbole with even more exaggerated (but not obviously ironic) embroidery, then spending countless posts trying to rationalize it as reasonable speculation does not make it any less offensive or, frankly, idiotic. And **Diogenes the Cynic** has clearly indicated that has no empathy for nor wishes to consider the viewpoint of anyone who finds his statements egregious, gratuitous, or offensive, which marks him as either being an extreme narcissist or an intentional troll. His continued justification of this statement on the basis that absent any other information (other than that the peace officers were targeted for being peace officers), we should seriously consider the possibility that they were highly corrupt and therefore “[had] it coming”, plus his proud self-identification as being “happy as a pig in shit” in being the focus of angered disagreement about the semantic and and literal interpretation of his statements (his singular defense being “I didn’t break any rules, moron,”) reinforces this image. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/327 "2009-12-02T06:48:34Z")
If you don’t mind, I’m going to circle back to a previous statement. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The successive attempts to justify and rationalize this statement approach a pathological degree of narcissism for the inability to admit to error or consider the viewpoints of other people. Disagree. DtC was more than willing to qualify his remarks, in the face of mostly hostile posts. I gave an example above. What he does less of is compromise in terms of tone. But as another poster noted, this is mostly an RO thread, with perhaps one partial exception IIRC. I don’t have any sympathy for the perp, but I don’t feel especially surprised or betrayed when I read news reports of mayhem. My interest in news stories that are empty of policy content is limited. Admittedly, most part company with me on that account. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/328 "2009-12-02T07:41:00Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > If you don’t mind, I’m going to circle back to a previous statement. Disagree. DtC was more than willing to qualify his remarks, in the face of mostly hostile posts. I gave an example above. What he does less of is compromise in terms of tone. But as another poster noted, this is mostly an RO thread, with perhaps one partial exception IIRC. > > I don’t have any sympathy for the perp, but I don’t feel especially surprised or betrayed when I read news reports of mayhem. My interest in news stories that are empty of policy content is limited. Admittedly, most part company with me on that account. He wasn’t qualifying his remarks. he was trying to back out of a complete fuck up he made by shooting his mouth off. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/329 "2009-12-02T07:53:09Z")
Funny thing is, those two things look remarkably alike. I’ve done them both, and the distinction is pretty subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/330 "2009-12-02T08:43:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why would they necessarily know he had shot some cops? Let’s not Dr. Mudd these guys. They deserve due process too. Do the dead police deserve due process? Anyway, I’ve encountered plenty of people who think cops, merely by being cops, “have it coming.” Obviously, the shooter in this case took that concept to the extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/331 "2009-12-02T14:11:52Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > So, it follows that you, yourself would be willing to pull the switch or press the button that does the deed? Or are you content to condemn people from the comfort of > your easy chair? My personal opinion is that if you are sentenced to die, you should be killed in the same exact way as your victims were. This is one lovely case where it actually pretty nice happened that way. But, yes, for a mass murderer/serial killer I would certainly be willing to pull the switch or press the button. And let’s not forget Clemmons’s was out on bail for _raping a 12 year old child_. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/332 "2009-12-02T14:25:21Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > He wasn’t qualifying his remarks. he was trying to back out of a complete fuck up he made by shooting his mouth off. No I wasn’t. I didn’t fuck up. I said nothing inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/333 "2009-12-02T14:26:44Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Do the dead police deserve due process? Are they charged with anything? What is the relevance of this question? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/334 "2009-12-02T14:39:09Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > My personal opinion is that if you are sentenced to die, you should be killed in the same exact way as your victims were. This is one lovely case where it actually pretty nice happened that way. > > But, yes, for a mass murderer/serial killer I would certainly be willing to pull the switch or press the button. > > And let’s not forget Clemmons’s was out on bail for _raping a 12 year old child_. And if you happen to be busy that day, I’ll be happy to fill in for you. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/335 "2009-12-02T14:53:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why would they necessarily know he had shot some cops? Because he wasn’t alone? [Someone was waiting for him outside!](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010399026_apwaofficershotgetawaydriver.html) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/336 "2009-12-02T14:55:19Z")
What method would you employ to ensure 100% certainty that you were killing the right guy? And really? They should be killed the same way? You can’t see an 8th Amendment problem there? The Constitution means nothing to you? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/337 "2009-12-02T14:57:01Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Because he wasn’t alone? [Someone was waiting for him outside!](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010399026_apwaofficershotgetawaydriver.html) Well, if they knew then they knew. I’m not saying let them go, I’m saying they’re entitled to due process. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/338 "2009-12-02T15:00:01Z")
Methinks **DtC** should try reading up on the case before making arguments. First arguing about Clemmons being psychotic although [all he was diagnosed with was stress](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11838033&postcount=287); now this. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/339 "2009-12-02T15:00:59Z")
You disagree that they should receive a trial? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/340 "2009-12-02T15:03:09Z")
And building strawmen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369.md?page=18)