# Four Seattle police officers ambushed and shot dead **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369 "2009-11-29T19:53:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/61 "2009-11-30T05:42:47Z")
Is the pit just a trash dump now? This thread shouldn’t be here either. Maybe Tomndebb just doesn’t want to mod it. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/62 "2009-11-30T06:04:09Z")
Anyway it’s been confirmed that the person of interest indeed was shown clemency by Huckabee. [http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/huckabee.php#more?ref=fpblg](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/huckabee.php#more?ref=fpblg) This is the 2nd exfelon who had a sentence commuted by Huckabee and then proceeded to add to the mayhem. [Matt Yglesias](http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/11/huckabee-in-for-some-trouble.php) notes: “60 years for burglary and theft for an eighteen year-old seems incredibly excessive. In this case, of course, you can’t help but wish he were in fact still in prison. But it’s hard to see what about a record of involvement in burglaries would make you think this was a guy at risk of doing something like this.” He thinks this was a reasonable use of clemency authority. The person of interest was sentenced to 60 years in 1990 when he was 18; he served 10 before being released by Huckabee in 2000. I’m sympathetic to Yglesias’ POV. Hm. I wonder what we could do to get this forwarded to GQ. 3 forums isn’t enough! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kitemaker\_chuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e4f/32.png) [@kitemaker\_chuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitemaker_chuck)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/63 "2009-11-30T06:06:43Z")
> [@Taters](#): > > They are actually Lakewood police officers. Lakewood is about 30 miles south of Seattle. This happened about 10 miles west of where I live. I’ve been watching the story unfold all morning. > > They have a description of the shooter now. I hope they catch low-life son of a bitch. > > I am definitely keeping the families and co-workers of these officers in my thoughts. My sister knew two of the four officers killed. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/64 "2009-11-30T06:20:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The reason violent felons get freed (and I agree they should not) is because they have to make room for all the mandatorily sentenced drug offenders. And at least some places, because those “tough on crime” mandatory sentencing laws passed due to terror that some “liberal judge” will let criminals go, actually force them to let go criminals sooner. Since they were carefully written to keep those largely imaginary “liberal judges” from deciding how long sentences are, they result in dangerous criminals being let loose after a specific sentence whatever a judge might prefer. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/65 "2009-11-30T06:43:22Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > ETA: I still think, however, that something is quite wrong with our justice system when a five-time violent felon manages to get free of the law and do something like this. The fact that this guy committed his crimes at 17 doesn’t really mean anything; someone who’s 17 is not a child, as far as I’m concerned. Someone should have seen this coming. I agree completely. For a long time I’ve been against the death penalty on the grounds that it’s not worth the risk of executing innocent people, but maybe we should be a lot more free with executing obviously completely unrecoverable criminals. People who just rack up sentence after sentence are clearly never going to be rehabilitated, so why allow them to continue victimizing other citizens? So I’d say I’m still against the death penalty for any first offense, but if you’ve been convicted more than twice of violent felonies, maybe in most cases society should either stick you in a hole and forget about you or just put you down for good, whichever is cheapest. > [@kitemaker\_chuck](#): > > My sister knew two of the four officers killed. I’m so sorry to hear that. ☹ It’s just beyond comprehension to me how anybody could be so selfish as to think that somehow they’re entitled to hurt so many people like this. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/66 "2009-11-30T06:44:21Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Is the pit just a trash dump now? This thread shouldn’t be here either. Maybe Tomndebb just doesn’t want to mod it. Why not? I agree it doesn’t belong in GD. It’s either here or back in MPSIMS, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![groo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecd19e/32.png) [@groo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/67 "2009-11-30T06:46:56Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] … Anti-cop sentiment is strong among college-age, liberal leaning people, and is tied particularly tightly with radical politics. These people are quick to defend anyone who takes the life of a law officer. [/QUOTE] I hate Klingons, so the fucking Klingon sympathizers are equally to blame for killing four cops in Washington. Fucking Klingon sympathizers! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/68 "2009-11-30T06:48:31Z")
I never saw any of those cop-hating liberals when I was a liberal college student either. I must have been going to the wrong parties. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/69 "2009-11-30T07:06:15Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > [Matt Yglesias](http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/11/huckabee-in-for-some-trouble.php) notes: "60 years for burglary and theft for an eighteen year-old seems incredibly excessive. I kind of agree, though maybe the details of the burglary were particularly egregious or something? How do you get 60 years for theft? FWIW, the authorities that allowed him to post bail while he was a fugitive in another state and apparently pretty severly mentally ill probably have a lot more to answer for then Huckabee. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/70 "2009-11-30T07:19:10Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > … If so, I do believe this kills whatever chance Huckabee has for the Republican presidential nomination. … [C’mon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Lee_Lucas), > [@](#): > > … During his tenure, [Bush](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_as_Governor_of_Texas) signed the execution warrants for more death row inmates than any other Governor in the history of Texas, averaging a death every nine days. The only death penalty case among the 153 that came across George W. Bush’s desk in his tenure as Texas Governor in which Governor Bush intervened and commuted the death sentence was that of serial killer Henry Lee Lucas. … > > … The only successful commutation of a death sentence in Texas since the re-institution of the death penalty in Texas in 1982. … Henry _fucking_ Lee _fucking_ Lucas? :eek: IOKWARGDI! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/71 "2009-11-30T07:37:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That’s exactly what I was suggesting. They were apparently specifically targeted. They weren’t killed in a shootout or anything. It makes me wonder. Or maybe I’ve just read too many James Elroy novels. They, as individuals, were not targeted. They were four cops getting ready for their shift in a coffee shop where cops go. They were targeted _BECAUSE_ they were cops. The (presumed:rolleyes:) shooter was out on $100k bail prior to his third strike. He has a history of assault on an officer and child rape. Of course, that third strike was the fault of the system, specificly the police that won’t allow him to act like an animal. He walked to the register turned and started shooting. I believe he targeted the female officer first. Two of the officers managed to approach. One struggled with him and got off a shot before being killed. He is a predator. Stop defending such behavior! These four people had nine young children between them. They were husbands, a wife, sons, a daughter, brothers and a sister. They were good cops and good people and they were murdered by an evil man with nothing to lose. How dare you sully their memory! ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/72 "2009-11-30T07:48:07Z")
> [@leaper](#): > > why not? I agree it doesn’t belong in gd. It’s either here or back in mpsims, imo. mpsims. ---
**Author:** ![MerryMagdalen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@MerryMagdalen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MerryMagdalen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/73 "2009-11-30T07:50:00Z")
The police are currently [surrounding a home in Seattle’s Leschi neighborhood](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010386387_webleschihome29m.html). An article in the Seattle Times detailing the person of interest’s criminal record sounds like he’d been [taking a wee turn for the crazy](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010385617_webmansought29.html). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/74 "2009-11-30T08:03:35Z")
> [@picunurse](#): > > They, as individuals, were not targeted. They were four cops getting ready for their shift in a coffee shop where cops go. They were targeted _BECAUSE_ they were cops. The (presumed:rolleyes:) shooter was out on $100k bail prior to his third strike. He has a history of assault on an officer and child rape. Of course, that third strike was the fault of the system, specificly the police that won’t allow him to act like an animal. > > He walked to the register turned and started shooting. I believe he targeted the female officer first. Two of the officers managed to approach. One struggled with him and got off a shot before being killed. He is a predator. > > Stop defending such behavior! These four people had nine young children between them. They were husbands, a wife, sons, a daughter, brothers and a sister. They were good cops and good people and they were murdered by an evil man with nothing to lose. > > How dare you sully their memory! I didn’t defend anything, and how do you know why they were targeted? ---
**Author:** ![MerryMagdalen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@MerryMagdalen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MerryMagdalen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/75 "2009-11-30T08:18:01Z")
It seems from the news coverage that this was sort of a known officer hangout, so it seems more likely right now that they were targeted for being cops than for being specific cops. I used to live near there but it’s been many years so I’m not familiar with the atmosphere now. > [@](#): > > In another instance, Clemmons was accused of gathering his wife and young relatives around at 3 or 4 in the morning and having them all undress. He told them that families need to “be naked for at least 5 minutes on Sunday,” a Pierce County sheriff’s report says. > > “The whole time Clemmons kept saying things like trust him, the world is going to end soon, and that he was Jesus,” the report says. > > As part of the child-rape investigation, the sheriff’s office interviewed Clemmons’ sister in May. She told them that “Maurice is not in his right mind and did not know how he could react when contacted by Law Enforcement,” a sheriff’s report says. > > “She stated that he was saying that the secret service was coming to get him because he had written a letter to the President. She stated his behavior has become unpredictable and erratic. She suspects he is having a mental breakdown,” the report says. From the article I posted above. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/76 "2009-11-30T08:24:34Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > …probably putting down your pitchfork and torch is a wise move until such time as the killer has been identified. Agreed. Generally speaking, I try to delay bar-room judgment until at least 72 hours after the story breaks. (Opinions on policy should take somewhat longer.) My previous remarks should be regarded as tentative. Mainstream TV news anchors have a differing perspective, one I do not share. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/77 "2009-11-30T08:32:29Z")
I heard a report earlier where investigators were saying it “wasn’t random.” If it wasn’t random, I assumed they must have been specifically targeted. I see nothing inappropriate about wondering (with such little information, and we still don’t know that this Clemmons guy was the perp, by the way) if they were targeted for reasons having to do with involvement in criminal activity. Asking the question is not an accusation, nor is it a suggestion that the shooter should not be held accountable (if sane). It does sound like this could just be yet another psychotic with a gun, though. ---
**Author:** ![MerryMagdalen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@MerryMagdalen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MerryMagdalen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/78 "2009-11-30T08:44:43Z")
Oh, I don’t think it was random, but I think it could have been any group of four cops. And indeed, we don’t know that Clemmons is anything more than a “person of interest” since that’s what he’s been labeled. For all we really know, he’s some sad sack that was standing outside or seemed to have association with a putative gunman. However, apparently said gunman walked up to the counter and the barista saw enough of a weapon to run and hide. I’m not the person to ask about police corruption in Tacoma/Lakewood, since I left ten years ago and my family doesn’t follow those things. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/79 "2009-11-30T12:12:36Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > [C’mon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Lee_Lucas),Henry _fucking_ Lee _fucking_ Lucas? :eek: > > IOKWARGDI! > > CMC fnord! Bush didn’t let him out – just changed death to a life sentence. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/80 "2009-11-30T12:26:32Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Bush didn’t let him out – just changed death to a life sentence. Yeah, I read my cites too. The point was, if Bush could get do that (153 DP cases, and the one that gets his special attention is who? :eek:) and still get nominated, and elected, then Huckabee has nothing to worry about (at least with regards to this, IMHO of course). CMC fnord! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369.md?page=5)