# Four Seattle police officers ambushed and shot dead **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369 "2009-11-29T19:53:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/81 "2009-11-30T12:31:38Z")
Is this someone Huckabee pardoned because he (the felon) found Jesus? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/82 "2009-11-30T12:33:17Z")
Just because they were cops does not make the crime any better or worse than it otherwise was. Similarly, their lives are neither more precious nor less precious than anyone else’s. I get a little tired of conservatives taking this angle: I’m a conservative. I just love cops and troops. Whenever they die, liberals must be overjoyed cause they all hate them. No we don’t. What this did was cinch the 2012 nomination for Sarah Palin. She no longer need fear splitting the evangelical vote with Huckabee. He very likely cannot run now but if he does, she can and would deliver the death blow by painting him as soft on crime. All that crap about forgiveness and second chances, Lord knows where Huckabee picked that up. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/83 "2009-11-30T12:47:29Z")
> [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](#): > > Is this someone Huckabee pardoned because he (the felon) found Jesus? From what I can see, [maybe.](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=3983797&page=1) > [@](#): > > None of the prosecutors were ever told why Huckabee felt compelled to have a hand in freeing so many prisoners, though all of them speculate that his deeply religious nature led to a strong belief in repentance and forgiveness. In some cases, prosecutors say, evangelical leaders attested that a prisoner had found Jesus and that seemed to influence the governor’s thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/84 "2009-11-30T13:00:00Z")
BBC: [Seattle police killer suspect ‘shot and possibly dead’](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8385919.stm) > [@The BBC](#): > > Ed Troyer, a spokesman for the Pierce County Sheriff, confirmed that Mr Clemmons had been shot by police. > > “He may be deceased from his gunshot wound,” Mr Troyer told the Associated Press news agency. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/85 "2009-11-30T13:00:02Z")
Why is none of this on the morning TV news? ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/86 "2009-11-30T13:49:08Z")
> [@picunurse](#): > > They were targeted _BECAUSE_ they were cops. Are you in possession of some facts we’re not privvy to? Because based on what we know now, we don’t know why these cops were shot. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/87 "2009-11-30T14:34:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I heard a report earlier where investigators were saying it “wasn’t random.” If it wasn’t random, I assumed they must have been specifically targeted. I see nothing inappropriate about wondering (with such little information, and we still don’t know that this Clemmons guy was the perp, by the way) if they were targeted for reasons having to do with involvement in criminal activity. Asking the question is not an accusation, nor is it a suggestion that the shooter should not be held accountable (if sane). You are a passive-aggressive, self-martyring asshat. You didn’t “ask the question,” you said, “And how do you know these cops didn’t have it coming?”, implying, absent of any evidence or indication whatsoever, that we should assume that they’re deserving of their fate. You are fulfilling the archetype that **Argent Towers** was ranting on about previously. You’re also (intentionally, at this point) sticking it to the people who are sincerely upset over this incident. You are a flat-footed troll. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/88 "2009-11-30T14:35:31Z")
Probably based on the fact that the cops were the only ones shot - not the baristas (one of whom he was facing before he turned and shot the cops) and not the civilian customers. Sounds like ‘specifically targeting’ to me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/89 "2009-11-30T14:47:11Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > You are a passive-aggressive, self-martyring asshat. You didn’t “ask the question,” you said, “And how do you know these cops didn’t have it coming?”, implying, absent of any evidence or indication whatsoever, that we should assume that they’re deserving of their fate. You are fulfilling the archetype that **Argent Towers** was ranting on about previously. You’re also (intentionally, at this point) sticking it to the people who are sincerely upset over this incident. You are a flat-footed troll. > > Stranger I just asked a question. I phrased it somewhat facetiously because I was responding to a rather OTT post by **Argent Towers**. I “implied” nothing, and I’ve “stuck it it to” nobody. If you have a problem with me, you can report me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/90 "2009-11-30T14:50:34Z")
> [@lawoot](#): > > Probably based on the fact that the cops were the only ones shot - not the baristas (one of whom he was facing before he turned and shot the cops) and not the civilian customers. Sounds like ‘specifically targeting’ to me. Yes, but we don’t know WHY he was targeting them. Was he targeting cops, or was he targeting _these_ cops. It sounds like he might have been psychotic, in which case it doesn’t really matter. It was just a function of mental illness. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/91 "2009-11-30T14:51:27Z")
> [@lawoot](#): > > Probably based on the fact that the cops were the only ones shot - not the baristas (one of whom he was facing before he turned and shot the cops) and not the civilian customers. Sounds like ‘specifically targeting’ to me. So they “had it coming”? I don’t know if you realize this or not but peace officers are a big target of opportunity for gangbangers and shitbags who decide that they need some street cred or want to go out in a hail of bullets. Just because they were targeted doesn’t mean anything more than this guy wanted to get his jollies off by knocking over some blue suits. You don’t seriously see how a random, baseless implication that a cold blooded mass shooting of police officers justified by “How do you know they didn’t have it coming?” isn’t offensive to an extreme? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/92 "2009-11-30T14:55:09Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > So they “had it coming”? I don’t know if you realize this or not but peace officers are a big target of opportunity for gangbangers and shitbags who decide that they need some street cred or want to go out in a hail of bullets. Just because they were targeted doesn’t mean anything more than this guy wanted to get his jollies off by knocking over some blue suits. You don’t seriously see how a random, baseless implication that a cold blooded mass shooting of police officers justified by “How do you know they didn’t have it coming?” isn’t offensive to an extreme? There was no implication. There was a question based on the unusual statement by investigators that the shooting wasn’t random. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/93 "2009-11-30T14:56:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I just asked a question. I phrased it somewhat facetiously because I was responding to a rather OTT post by **Argent Towers**. I “implied” nothing, and I’ve “stuck it it to” nobody. If you have a problem with me, you can report me. Already did. And yes, I have a problem with you; you’re a repugnant troll who makes a point of shitting in every thread you participate in. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/94 "2009-11-30T14:57:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There was no implication. There was a question based on the unusual statement by investigators that the shooting wasn’t random. “When did you stop beating your wife?” is also a question. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/95 "2009-11-30T15:00:28Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Already did. And yes, I have a problem with you; you’re a repugnant troll who makes a point of shitting in every thread you participate in. You seem to be the one shitting all over this thread because of a personal obsession with me. If you’ve already reported me, then your work is done here. I have no interest in your opinion of me, nor your dishonest characterizations of my posts. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/96 "2009-11-30T15:01:33Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > “When did you stop beating your wife?” is also a question. False comparison. That question assumes facts not in evidence. My question did not. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/97 "2009-11-30T15:05:13Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > So I’d say I’m still against the death penalty for any first offense, but if you’ve been convicted more than twice of violent felonies, maybe in most cases society should either stick you in a hole and forget about you or just put you down for good, whichever is cheapest. I would still oppose the death penalty under those circumstances. I would think being accused of a third violent crime would make sway jurors into believing him to be guilty. I vote for the hole, from which one can always be pulled. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/98 "2009-11-30T15:08:36Z")
It’s a whole lot easier to correct a false conviction if the death penalty is not applied. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/99 "2009-11-30T15:10:25Z")
A lot of people will say they’d favor the death penalty only when there is no doubt at all as to guilt, but that seems to me to be begging the question. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/100 "2009-11-30T15:11:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I just asked a question. I phrased it somewhat facetiously because I was responding to a rather OTT post by **Argent Towers**. I “implied” nothing, and I’ve “stuck it it to” nobody. If you have a problem with me, you can report me. Well perhaps you can see how people who read your post could come to the conclusion that you did in fact imply that? At least recognize that what you posted could be interpreted that way. If you can’t even do that, you’re just a sack of shit who’s wasting everyone’s time. And tbh, there is no scenario I can think of where these cops “had it coming”. I don’t care what kind of dubious shit these cops were involved in (if they were, since we don’t have any information) NOBODY deserves to be gunned down like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369.md?page=6)