# Four Seattle police officers ambushed and shot dead **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369 "2009-11-29T19:53:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/121 "2009-11-30T17:41:17Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, then be a man and just admit you love the attention, and that’s all I have to say on the matter. I don’t want the attention, and didn’t expect to get it. I was posting in a moment of perturbance and (I thought) with obvious sarcasm to a poster who had posted a series of rants and assertions out of proportion to the facts known about the story. And I don’t care what anybody says, the non-random targeting of specific cops for assassination (which is how the initial resports from investigators made it sound) is so unusual that my speculation was entirely reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/122 "2009-11-30T17:41:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Enjoy your smug judgementalism, though. I hope that works out for you. How’s that doucebaggery working out for ya? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/123 "2009-11-30T17:42:26Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Where the fuck do you get this from? Go on, tell me what percentage of the population indulge in this kind of behaviour? The percentage doesn’t matter. One-tenth of one percent of the population could indulge in this kind behavior and you’d still have 300,000 people doing it. The point is that police officers face a much greater threat of targeted violence due to the fact that they are police than do people in most other types of jobs. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/124 "2009-11-30T17:45:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > And I don’t care what anybody says, the non-random targeting of specific cops for assassination (which is how the initial resports from investigators made it sound) is so unusual that my speculation was entirely reasonable. You’re completely missing the point. If you had simply said, I wonder if the cops were involved in something they shouldn’t have been and the shooting is related to that, people wouldn’t have jumped on your shit. That would have been legitimate speculation. “How do you know they didn’t have it coming” is just shit stirring. And now you’re just being stubborn and unreasonable and digging your heels in when it is clear you chose your words poorly. Fucking man up and admit it already. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/125 "2009-11-30T17:48:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The point is that police officers face a much greater threat of targeted violence due to the fact that they are police than do people in most other types of jobs. Of course you’ll provide a cite for this, right? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/126 "2009-11-30T17:52:18Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > You’re completely missing the point. If you had simply said, I wonder if the cops were involved in something they shouldn’t have been and the shooting is related to that, people wouldn’t have jumped on your shit. That would have been legitimate speculation. “How do you know they didn’t have it coming” is just shit stirring. > > And now you’re just being stubborn and unreasonable and digging your heels in when it is clear you chose your words poorly. > > Fucking man up and admit it already. I honestly was not trying to stir shit. I was trying to take some piss from a specific poster. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/127 "2009-11-30T18:00:53Z")
It is such a senseless act, that will bring the full power of the police down on them, that it does make you wonder. This kind of stuff does not happen. Who wants to get the entire police department on their back. I need more. The police say it was not random. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/128 "2009-11-30T18:10:07Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > You’re completely missing the point. If you had simply said, I wonder if the cops were involved in something they shouldn’t have been and the shooting is related to that, people wouldn’t have jumped on your shit. That would have been legitimate speculation. “How do you know they didn’t have it coming” is just shit stirring. I really think you and some others need a nap. “How do you know they didn’t have it coming” may be crass, but it is \*very close \*to “I wonder if the cops were involved in something they shouldn’t have been and the shooting is related to that”. It is also close to 'Why don’t you calm down and wait till we actually have something other than assumptions to go on". **Argent Towers** already had the shooters living like kings in luxury, with free drugs and blow jobs at taxpayer expense. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/129 "2009-11-30T18:16:49Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > How’s that doucebaggery working out for ya? It seems to be working out fine for him; he reports as being “happy as a pig in shit”, which accords well with my mental image of him. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/130 "2009-11-30T18:22:42Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > Of course you’ll provide a cite for this, right? You want a cite that _police officers_ have a dangerous job and that people occasionally take shots at them? For real. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/131 "2009-11-30T18:23:16Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > It is such a senseless act, that will bring the full power of the police down on them, that it does make you wonder. This kind of stuff does not happen. Who wants to get the entire police department on their back. I need more. The police say it was not random. If the entire police ddepartment is 6\*, and you’ve already shot 4, then having the rest of the department on your back is not much of a big deal. - I have no idea of the actual size of the PD in question. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/132 "2009-11-30T18:27:23Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > If the entire police ddepartment is 6\*, and you’ve already shot 4, then having the rest of the department on your back is not much of a big deal. > > - I have no idea of the actual size of the PD in question. > [@](#): > > Lakewood’s 21st Century department has 123 staff members-102 commissioned, 8 Community Service Officers, 2 Animal Control Officers and 11 civilian support staff. Lakewood is one of the largest departments in the State of Washington. [http://police.cityoflakewood.us/](http://police.cityoflakewood.us/) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/133 "2009-11-30T18:27:31Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > “How do you know they didn’t have it coming” may be crass, but it is \*very close \*to “I wonder if the cops were involved in something they shouldn’t have been and the shooting is related to that”. No it isn’t. Not at all. “Have it coming” means they \*deserved \*being gunned down. What could they possibly have been involved with that would justify that? Even if they were lying murdering scumbag child pornographers, what they \*deserved \*was their day in court, not summary execution. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/134 "2009-11-30T18:29:48Z")
That’s debatable. Morally anyway. Legally, yes, it was a crime (if the shooter was sane). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/135 "2009-11-30T18:35:43Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > You want a cite that _police officers_ have a dangerous job and that people occasionally take shots at them? For real. I think the suggestion was that people go hunting police, or respond with violence when they encounter police. My guess is that the opposite is true, that people, especially violent ones, avoid the police in favor of easier targets. But I have no actual data on this. And how it compares to other professions? I don’t have a clue where to find a list of jobs ordered by the number of assaults people in them suffer. Repomen come to mind – I dunno, maybe process servers. Oh yeah, how about convenience store clerks? I do recall a network news story not long ago about NFL players, who seem as a group to have an inordinate number of weapons charges placed against them. Many players are convinced that they are considered targets by large numbers of guys with a fair amount of brawn and little brain. Apparently it’s cool to be able to say you beat up a linebacker. Anyway, a lot of players arm themselves out of fear of violent assault, though I have no idea if there is any actual data collected to find out if it’s true. Anyway, it makes a lot more sense (to me) that there are other, more likely targets for violence than cops. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/136 "2009-11-30T18:44:55Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > I really think you and some others need a nap. > > “How do you know they didn’t have it coming” may be crass, but it is \*very close \*to “I wonder if the cops were involved in something they shouldn’t have been and the shooting is related to that”. The entire point is that it was a crass comment. The tone of the comment I posted is entirely different. Perhaps you need a nap. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/137 "2009-11-30T18:52:27Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > You want a cite that _police officers_ have a dangerous job and that people occasionally take shots at them? For real. Nobody would dispute that particular comment. However: > [@](#): > > The point is that police officers face a much greater threat of targeted violence due to the fact that they are police than do people in most other types of jobs. This isn’t the same as saying police have a dangerous job and sometime get shot at. SA’s comment implies that there is evidence that being a police officer makes it much more likely to be the victim of targeted violence. I’m not sure that’s true, but even if it weren’t true, it doesn’t mean being a cop isn’t a dangerous profession. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/138 "2009-11-30T18:52:30Z")
That’s it!! Naptime all around! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/139 "2009-11-30T18:52:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That’s debatable. What isn’t? At least around here. > [@](#): > > Morally anyway. Are you suggesting that an argument can be made that summarily executions of certain individuals by members of the population can be justified? That certain offenses are so bad that anyone with a gun can carry out said execution? What offenses rise to this level? The ones I mentioned? Is it fair to say, then, that your question can be re-phrased as “How do you know they weren’t lying murdering scumbag child pornographers?” If not, feel free to insert whatever offense you do believe rises to that level. As well as a reason to suspect the officers of said offense. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/140 "2009-11-30T19:09:53Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > What isn’t? At least around here. > > Are you suggesting that an argument can be made that summarily executions of certain individuals by members of the population can be justified? That certain offenses are so bad that anyone with a gun can carry out said execution? Of course. Bear in mind, that I’m talking _morally_, not _legally_, but yes, of course there are people who morally deserve summary execution. > [@](#): > > What offenses rise to this level? The ones I mentioned? Well, murderers and child pornographers, anyway. Also, how about 911 hijackers, rapists and serial killers? How about that guy who kept his daughter as a sex slave down in his basement for all those years, or the one who kidnapped that little girl and kept her in his backyard? Legally, they deserve a trial. Morally, they deserve literal crucifixion. > [@](#): > > Is it fair to say, then, that your question can be re-phrased as “How do you know they weren’t lying murdering scumbag child pornographers?” That is precisely how my question can be rephrased. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369.md?page=8)