# Four Seattle police officers ambushed and shot dead **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369 "2009-11-29T19:53:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/161 "2009-11-30T22:28:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Well, you’re the one who came up with “child pornographers,” but why couldn’t they be lying, murdering drug traffickers? Every small town PD has its own _Shield_-like Strike Team now! ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/162 "2009-11-30T22:29:20Z")
So, basically, we know dick, which by no means stops certain usual suspects from bloviating endlessly about dumb shit. Sounds about right. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/163 "2009-11-30T22:32:16Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Every small town PD has its own _Shield_-like Strike Team now! I don’t know anything about this town (and I didn’t even know what town it was when I made that post), but meth is mostly manufactured in rural areas. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/164 "2009-11-30T22:34:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not if the cops are randomly selected. To me, “non-random” means specifically targeted individuals. Maybe law enforcment should have chosen better words. There was a gunman and _n_ other people in the coffee shop. _n_-4 of them were not cops. 4 of them were cops. The gunman did not randomly shoot 4 people amongst the _n_ who were in the shop. He specifically targeted the 4 individuals who were cops. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/165 "2009-11-30T22:47:55Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Alternately, how do you know the victims at Columbine didn’t have it coming? Or the Virginia Tech massacre? The people at Fort Hood? They might have deserved it as well. > > Hell, for that matter, the rape victims might have had it coming. Or the 911 victims. As a matter of fact, I’ll bet that we both know of people who would mount a moral argument that they in fact \*did \*have it coming. One could always argue that the victims were receiving direct, retributive Karma for some dastardly crime they committed in a previous life. Not sure how you’d prove that in a court of law, though. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’ve never trolled in my life. This is me. Just because you believe in what you say doesn’t mean that you’re not a troll. In fact, the most successful trolls _always_ present viewpoints they believe in, even if their primary objective is just to piss everyone off. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/166 "2009-11-30T22:49:50Z")
> [@Lord\_Mondegreen](#): > > There was a gunman and _n_ other people in the coffee shop. _n_-4 of them were not cops. 4 of them were cops. The gunman did not randomly shoot 4 people amongst the _n_ who were in the shop. He specifically targeted the 4 individuals who were cops. Were they randomly targeted cops or specifically targeted? We still don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/167 "2009-11-30T22:51:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’ve never trolled in my life. This is me. Wow, my condolences. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/168 "2009-11-30T23:08:44Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Were they randomly targeted cops or specifically targeted? We still don’t know. That is true, we don’t know that. However it would certainly appear they were not randomly targeted _people_; they were specifically targeted people. Specifically targeted amongst a group of people (cops and not cops), because they were cops. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/169 "2009-11-30T23:39:30Z")
I disagree that we have any special reason to believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/170 "2009-11-30T23:47:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I never saw any of those cop-hating liberals when I was a liberal college student either. I must have been going to the wrong parties. I did. Of course, I went to UC Santa Cruz so YMMV. Sadly these kinds of idiot stereotypical wannabe rebels certainly do exist. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/171 "2009-11-30T23:54:51Z")
For actual arguments that we shouldn’t have (a lot of) sympathy for said cops, how about commentary [on this libertarian blog?](http://www.theagitator.com/2009/11/30/morning-links-278/#comments) Needed background: this blog is especially known for tracking stories of cops who face light or no punishment for egregiously abusing civilians and the system. Note further that the comment with the lined border admonishing most of the comments that do say “they got what they deserved” is the blog writer. (Although he can’t control the moderating system, which is done purely by the readers.) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/172 "2009-11-30T23:57:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Targeting them simply because they’re cops would still be random. Do you even read the nonsense that is dispatched from whatever passes for your brain to your fingertips? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/173 "2009-11-30T23:57:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I disagree that we have any special reason to believe that. Fair enough. I guess we will all learn more as the investigation proceeds. In the mean time my profound sympathies go out to the victims’ families. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/174 "2009-12-01T00:01:23Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Yeah, I have to agree. There was a time I thought DtC was just a huge, raging asshole sometimes and not really someone trolling around on these boards. > I’m starting to think otherwise. It’s getting harder and harder not to think it. Diogenes is one of those people that illustrates why the SDMB policy on trolling is so weak. What difference does it make whether or not he really means what he says? Objectively, he guilty of trolling. He threadshits constantly, making inflammatory, dogmatic statements and taking hardline stances from which he cannot be dislodged no matter how much logic or evidence is marshalled to the contrary. Why put the Mods in the impossible position of trying to decide whether a poster is only pretending to be an idiot, or really is one? And for that matter, why is the latter preferable? Hell, I have him on my ignore list, and he still annoys me: he derails otherwise-interesting threads, as well-meaning posters try ramming their heads against the brick wall of his pigheadedness. It’s sad. He’s an intelligent guy, and yet the board is a less-intelligent place because of his presence. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/175 "2009-12-01T00:04:55Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Wow, my condolences. _rimshot_ Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/176 "2009-12-01T00:15:06Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Why put the Mods in the impossible position of trying to decide whether a poster is only pretending to be an idiot, or really is one? And for that matter, why is the latter preferable? The moderators are hardly in an impossible position. According to \*\*FAQ - Guidelines and Etiquette on the SDMB \*\*, [post=7697084]“Violations of good manners and common courtesy constitute jerkhood, and are a bannable offense.”[/post] I think there is a general consensus that whether it due to intentional action, intoxication, untreated mental illness, or some congenital personality defect, **Diogenes the Cynic** posts in a consistent pattern of jerkish and goading statements. The mods could suspend or ban him anytime they so desired, just has has been done to several other posters. Clearly, they prefer, for whatever reason, to keep him around as a pet troll, whether out of amusement or because he holds goat pictures on someone. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/177 "2009-12-01T00:17:17Z")
I haven’t broken any rules, moron. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/178 "2009-12-01T00:30:41Z")
Well, here’s a scenario: The four cops were dealing cocaine. Unbeknownst to them, a woman observed many of their dirty deals. The four then killed the woman before she could testify against them. Enter the shooter: the dead woman’s husband. He goes into the coffee shop and exacts his revenge. In this scenario, you could say that they “had it coming.” Okay, that’s unlikely, absurd even. More likely, some liberal college professor found a mentally ill man and told him to go into the coffee shop and “off some pigs.” ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/179 "2009-12-01T01:23:14Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Every small town PD has its own _Shield_-like Strike Team now! I don’t think you understand. Even though it is a small town, it’s actually a neighborhood in Tacoma. There are only a few rural areas along the I-5 corridor from Tacoma to Seattle. Lakewood is a town within a city. The tactical teams that responded were, if memory serves, from WSP and/or Pierce Co Sheriff. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369/180 "2009-12-01T01:38:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I haven’t broken any rules, moron. “Violations of good manners and common courtesy constitute jerkhood, and are a bannable offense.” Sorry, there are a few words that have more than two syllables, but you can get a friend to sound them out for you. Well, you could if you had any friends. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-seattle-police-officers-ambushed-and-shot-dead/519369.md?page=10)