# "Four" Sounds like Death in Asian language - T or F? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 4, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975 "2004-11-04T15:10:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/21 "2004-11-05T00:06:40Z")
> [@zut](#): > > On a more serious note: Is Japanese noted for having multiple words with substantially similar pronunciations? Even with words having multiple definitions, I can’t think of any English syllable having so many meanings. In the level 1 Japanese Language Proficiency Test (the highest), there’s a whole section dedicated to telling homophones appart. “Four” and “death” aren’t so bad because you’d never mistake one for another in context, but imagine pairs like “_shiritsu_” which can mean, depending on how you write it, “private” or “municipal”. “_Kaki_” means either “parsimmon” or “oyster”, both foodstuffs. The great on-line Goo dictionary returns [35 hits for “shi”](http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.php?MT=%A4%B7&kind=jn&mode=1&jn.x=21&jn.y=7). Some of those are obscure, but some other common words that sound the same as “death” are: poem, lyric, municipality… Most of the others are not used as-is, they’re either grammatical particles, or tacked on to other words to alter their meaning. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/22 "2004-11-05T00:07:17Z")
In Japanese, 4 is definitely to be avoided, because it is prounounced the same way as the ideogram for “death” which is “shi.” Also 9 is to be avoided because it is prounounced the same as the ideogram for “suffering” which is “kyu”. Both of these also sound like numerous other innocuous words. As noted before Japanese doesn’t have a lot of phonic diversity, which results in loads and loads of homophones. This problem is neatly and simply resolved by using a writing system with several thousand ideograms borrowed from Chinese. So there are many, many odd coincidences of words that are differentiated only by the ideograms used to write them. The Japanese seem to have a fondness for numerology as related to these characters… otherwise coincidences are ignored or made into really bad puns. Since Japanese characters are borrowed from Chinese, that is why you could see the same coincidence in such dissimilar languages. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/23 "2004-11-05T05:52:03Z")
> [@zut](#): > > Oooh! What words are they? And can you make a meaningful sentence using only those words? I don’t have Japanese, but in Chinese you can say: mama ma ma de ma ma? (“Is mother cursing [Mr.] Ma’s horse?”) With tones, it’s: ma1ma ma4 ma2 de ma3 ma? One of my favorites for illustrating how important tones are. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/24 "2004-11-05T06:19:11Z")
You can’t make anything meaningful with just “shi” in Japanese but there are _a lot_ of tongue twisters that use homonyms. One of the most famous ones goes: _Niwa ni wa ni-wa niwatori ga iru_ (There are two chickens in the garden): Niwa: garden Ni wa: in the Ni-wa: two niwatori: chicken There’s also: _Kisha no kisha ga kisha de kisha shita_ (Your company’s reporter went back to work by train.) Kisha #1: polite word for “your company” Kisha #2: reporter, journalist Kisha #3: steam train Kisha #4: return to work from a business trip And: _Sumomo mo momo mo momo no uchi_ (Plums and peaches are among peaches.) Sumomo: plum Mo: also Momo: peach ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/25 "2004-11-05T06:51:11Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Some buildings buildings in the US don’t have 13th floors too. Same thing. Some apartment buildings in HK have no 4th, 13th, and 14th floors. Recently, went to a kiddies’ birthday party where the host lived in Block 3B - there being no Block 4. > [@jjimm](#): > > “Soi” is Cantonese for water and also slang for money. So water features are seen as good, and fishtanks abound in offices. With goldfish in them, naturally. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/26 "2004-11-05T07:08:55Z")
When I worked at a brokerage firm, I did some maintenence on the account number generator. There was special code for aisian branches to skip over accounts with 4’s in them. ---
**Author:** ![marky33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@marky33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marky33)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/27 "2004-11-05T09:05:52Z")
An old power station, now demolished, here in Hong Kong had five chimneys, only four of which worked, for this reason. The fifth, dummy chimney was built to avoid having just the unlucky four. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/28 "2004-11-05T12:28:00Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > True or not, it seems a silly reason to avoid the word. We don’t fret about misuse of the singular of ‘dice’, do we? But how often do you see brand names with “DIE!” in them? It’s about as prevelant as 13 superstitions in the US, I’d guess, although 4’s tend to come up more frequently in daily life. It gets used occasionally in horror movies (some such as _Gakkou no kaidan_, have the freaky stuff start happening at 4:44 in the morning). When I was in the hospital last year, they had a fourth floor, but it wasn’t for patients. On the patient wards, they went right ahead and used 4’s, 9’s and 13’s. I first learned about the 4=death story from my Japanese teacher. Her telephone number was 4219, which could be read as “shi ni iku,” “go to your death” or “go die.” Definitely made it easy to remember! ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/29 "2004-11-05T12:29:55Z")
And since I forgot the OP was asking about Asian languages in general, all my points above were referring to Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/30 "2004-11-05T13:03:50Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > _Sumomo mo momo mo momo no uchi_ (Plums and peaches are among peaches.) > Sumomo: plum > Mo: also > Momo: peach NO!!! it’s: “Momo mo, _sumomo_ mo, momo no uchi!!” sheesh… For some reason this thread reminds me of the schtick in an old “Get Smart” episode, pitting Agent 86 against an evil Chinese criminal mastermind with a steel claw for a hand: "No!!!, No!!! Not the _“craw”_,…_THE “CRRRAAAWWWWW”!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/31 "2004-11-06T21:50:13Z")
> [@bizzwire](#): > > NO!!! it’s: > > “Momo mo, _sumomo_ mo, momo no uchi!!” > > sheesh… > \* I also learned it with the sumomo first - because the real trick is knowing how many mo’s in a row to use, and if the sumomo is in the middle that kind of defeats that! ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/32 "2004-11-07T01:17:50Z")
“Shoes” and “Evil” are also pronounced the same in Chinese. And yes, “four” sounds just like “to die” or “dead”. Shoes are not a good gift in China, since it’s like “giving evil”. Just tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/33 "2004-11-07T06:26:55Z")
As mentioned above “sei” in Cantonese means 4 or die/dead/death, but the tones are a bit different (for “4” the tone goes up slightly). By comparison, the number 8, “baat”, is very lucky because it sort of sounds like the word for wealth/rich, which is “faat”. Obviously these are not the same sounds, but the tone is identical. I’ve heard a theory that people with Western names are allocated phone numbers with 4s because they won’t complain. My number at work, where I’m the sole non-Chinese, would appear to bear this out - but maybe I’m just being paranoid. The whole thing is ridiculous - but lucrative for vehicle licensing depts/phone companies that auction lucky numbers. This [grotesque building](http://www.asiaalum.com/EN/img/MajorProjects/ifc-2.jpg) officially has 88 floors (it’s actually a few less, but they jigged it to make it 88) and its address is “8 Finance Street”, even though there is no 1-7 or 9-etc) on that road. And the Beijing Olympics aren’t immune… [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3985467.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3985467.stm) ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/34 "2004-11-07T06:55:11Z")
So what will the _Fantastic Four_ movie be called in Japan and China? ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/35 "2004-11-07T07:54:14Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > But how often do you see brand names with “DIE!” in them? How about pesticides and vermin traps? ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/36 "2004-11-07T08:15:54Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > So what will the _Fantastic Four_ movie be called in Japan and China? In Japan, most likely “Fantastic Four”, in transliterated English, at least that how the comic is refered to in the pages I checked. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975/37 "2004-11-07T08:36:02Z")
> [@zut](#): > > can you make a meaningful sentence using only those words? Here’s a Cantonese oddity: “gau gau gau ge gau gau” = “nine old dogs’ plastic penises”. A handy phrase for the gentleman tourist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-sounds-like-death-in-asian-language-t-or-f/272975.md?page=1)