# Four U.S. Soldiers Apparently Dead in Training Accident in Lithuania **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [March 26, 2025, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149 "2025-03-26T17:58:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/1 "2025-03-26T17:58:12Z")
> **[Four US soldiers 'found dead' after tank disappears on training mission](https://www.themirror.com/news/us-news/us-soldiers-dead-lithuania-mission-1053202)** > > The four US soldiers and a tank disappeared while on a training mission inPabrade, Lithuania yesterday The rumors are that they drove the vehicle into a swamp and drowned. Can anyone find any official Army statement about this? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/2 "2025-03-26T18:12:09Z")
Jus this from US Army Europe and Africa. Nothing from the Pentagon yet as far as I can tell. [https://www.europeafrica.army.mil/ArticleViewPressRelease/Article/4135345/press-release-us-soldiers-reported-missing-in-lithuania/](https://www.europeafrica.army.mil/ArticleViewPressRelease/Article/4135345/press-release-us-soldiers-reported-missing-in-lithuania/) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/3 "2025-03-26T18:18:05Z")
And that release just says they are missing. Well it’s clear they are dead–but not how: **Four U.S. soldiers killed during training in Lithuania, says NATO chief** > NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte told news agencies on Wednesday that four U.S. soldiers that had gone missing during military exercises in Lithuania had died. > > He told reporters during a trip to Warsaw it was still early news and there were no details. Earlier the U.S. military said a search-and-rescue effort was underway after the four soldiers were reported missing during a military exercise at a training ground. [https://www.msn.com/en-us/public-safety-and-emergencies/general/four-u-s-soldiers-killed-during-training-in-lithuania-says-nato-chief/ar-AA1BI63s](https://www.msn.com/en-us/public-safety-and-emergencies/general/four-u-s-soldiers-killed-during-training-in-lithuania-says-nato-chief/ar-AA1BI63s) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/4 "2025-03-27T20:08:05Z")
Some better information: > Rescuers in [Lithuania](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/4-us-army-soldiers-go-missing-lithuania-training-exercise-rcna198184) were digging in a peat bog Thursday as they tried to recover the submerged vehicle of four [U.S. Army](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military) soldiers who went missing during a training exercise earlier this week. > > The **M88 Hercules armored vehicle was found more than 16 feet under water** Wednesday, a day after the soldiers went missing while training with Lithuanian armed forces and law enforcement… > > The recovery effort, which have been underway for the last 48 hours, has required specialized equipment to pump water and mud from the site and stabilize the soft ground of the surrounding area, which will allow it to support the heavy equipment needed to recover the vehicle. > > “Due to the terrain, this is an incredibly complex engineering effort,” said Maj. Robin Bruce, 1st Armored Division Engineer. “The team is exploring every available option to speed up this process.” > **[Missing U.S. soldiers' vehicle submerged more than 16 feet in peat bog as...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/lithuania-4-missing-us-soldiers-dig-submerged-vehicle-rcna198197)** > > The M88 Hercules armored vehicle was found Wednesday, a day after the soldiers went missing during a training exercise. The search and recovery efforts for the four soldiers is ongoing. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/5 "2025-03-27T21:19:56Z")
> **[Donald Trump says he wasn't briefed about US soldiers missing in Lithuania](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-not-briefed-us-army-soldiers-missing-lithuania-nato-2051222)** > > The four soldiers were carrying out "scheduled tactical training at the time of the incident," the U.S. Army said on Wednesday. The headline aside, this is walking back (slightly) the NATO statement that the soldiers are dead. Officially they remain missing and their status unknown. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/6 "2025-03-27T21:28:33Z")
How the Hell did they find that vehicle 16’ deep in a peat bog? There had to have been tracks left or some kind of beacon is all I can reckon. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/7 "2025-03-27T23:34:16Z")
There is a photo of the site. Thumbnail in the preview. Looks treacherous for any vehicle. > **[Boggy terrain complicates search for 4 missing US soldiers in Lithuania](https://www.stripes.com/branches/army/2025-03-27/army-soldiers-search-lithuania-17275483.html)** > > A mission to find four missing U.S. soldiers in Lithuania has been hampered by wet and muddy terrain, complicating an effort involving hundreds of personnel, U.S. Army officials said Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/8 "2025-03-27T23:40:29Z")
What I’m wondering is how they got in that deep. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/9 "2025-03-27T23:41:59Z")
70 tons is going straight down until it reaches solid ground. Link [What Is The M88 Recovery Vehicle And And When Does The Military Use Them?](https://www.slashgear.com/1820156/about-m88-military-recovery-vehicle-tank/) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/10 "2025-03-27T23:50:36Z")
Right, exactly, that’s why I’m puzzled. Put an Abrams on any sort of unstable ground, and it’ll go straight to whatever stable ground is underneath it. How steeply can that stable underlayer drop off? I’d expect that if you started driving into a swamp, you’d be a few inches deep into the muck, then a foot, then two feet, and so on. And the point at which it’s so deep that you can’t go any further would be before the tank was completely submerged. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/11 "2025-03-28T01:05:42Z")
(1) Perhaps they entered at speed (2) Perhaps there is just enough air in the thing to allow it to drift a bit as it sinks (so its momentum can continue to carry it forward as it sinks) (3) Perhaps this big has a sharp drop along that edge, not a smooth/gradual drop (4) But honestly, even if its not like a cliff, perhaps the driver lacked the presence of mind to brake, much less go into reverse, before they either lost consciousness, were forced away from the controls from the inrush of water, and/or the engine failed Anyway, I’m reminded of an incident in Iraq where a tank was driven past the edge of a bridge, rolled over as it went over the edge, and trapped the crew inside the upside down tank underwater. If they didn’t die on impact, they drowned. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/12 "2025-03-28T03:20:53Z")
Good point. Stuff does not sink upright in water. Nor in very thin slurry-like mud. Instead it’ll rotate to whatever orientation makes sense vs buoyancy & drag, But first it’ll be rotating per whatever rotational torques are put on it as the vehicle enters the soft liquidy part of its trip away from dry land. Turning, tumbling, nosing over, etc. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2025, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/13 "2025-03-30T13:59:34Z")
It’s even deeper in the mud today. Maybe the inside is full of mud too? Especially if they were driving with the hatches open. I’ve dealt with mud and it tends to ooze back into the hole I’m digging. It has to be a nightmare for this recovery operation. Link [4 U.S. Army soldiers missing in Lithuania: The latest updates](https://www.wjcl.com/article/u-s-army-missing-soldiers-lithuania-update-1/64330433) > [@](#): > > - The M88A2 Hercules has continued to sink into the bog, and is about 12 feet below the water’s surface and encased in about 6 feet of mud. Digging and pumping operations are continuing. > - “It is highly complex trying to get to the vehicle itself with the terrain out here and where the M88 is sitting in a bog swamp-like area, below the waterline. So not only are we dealing with the terrain, a lot of mud that is over top of the vehicle, but also the fact that it’s 70 tons that we’re trying to recover out of a swamp or bog,” said Brig. Gen. John Lloyd, commander of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers North Atlantic Division. “Last night, divers were in the water trying to get to the vehicle. We were unable to because of the amount of mud. We continue to work on the excavation and pumping all the water out of the bog and also using excavation equipment to try to get to the vehicle.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2025, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/14 "2025-03-30T16:36:56Z")
I think that, for a vehicle as dense as a tank, it’s basically irrelevant whether it stayed sealed or filled up with mud. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2025, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/15 "2025-03-31T16:40:29Z")
I feel terrible for their familes. At least now they can grieve and prepare the funerals. Hopefully the 4th soldier will be found soon. > **[3 missing US soldiers found dead in Lithuania, search continues for 4th soldier](https://abcnews.go.com/International/missing-us-soldiers-vehicle-pulled-swamp-lithuania-update/story?id=120327027)** > > Three of the four U.S. Army soldiers who went missing during a training mission were found dead on Monday, but the search is ongoing for the fourth soldier. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2025, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/16 "2025-03-31T17:07:00Z")
The Wiki for the M88 Hercules (which is a heavy recovery vehicle, not a classic tank) says that it has a fording depth of 2.3 meters. I could see an inexperienced driver assuming they just hit a wet patch in the bog and thinking they’ll clear it to solid land, until they don’t and it’s too late to do anything about it. It’s 3.12m high so, if you discover you’ve made a mistake at 2.3m and you’re stuck & sinking, you don’t have much grace to correct the situation before you’re submerged. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2025, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/17 "2025-03-31T18:22:01Z")
The fact that one body is not found with the others makes me think one crewmember managed to evac the vehicle and then drowned after getting some small distance from it. Maybe ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2025, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/18 "2025-03-31T22:04:00Z")
Or possibly evaced the vehicle and then managed to escape, though that still leaves open the question of why he hasn’t managed to make himself found yet. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/19 "2025-04-01T00:56:13Z")
Or the person was the vehicle’s TC (tactical commander) and had his hatch open and was moved away from the vehicle as it sank and he was also under the mud. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149/20 "2025-04-01T01:21:05Z")
Or there is a lot of muck down there, and they are having a hell of a time even just searching the interior. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-u-s-soldiers-apparently-dead-in-training-accident-in-lithuania/1016149.md?page=2)