# Four women defend their former lover **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2004, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628 "2004-07-05T11:39:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/21 "2004-07-05T19:30:19Z")
Your defense of his breach is pathetic in se. But your defense of it in the discharge of his public oaths and duties, even as it involved official cover-up, lies to the public, contempt of court, desecration of the Oval Office, and abuse of power, culminating with a $10 million dollar tell-all in which he expresses his own shame and regret for nearly losing his wife and daughter is astoundingly Neanderthal. He made it everyone’s business. And you should be ashamed for championing his abuse of those women, particularly those who clearly did not give him their consent. Are you of the school that they got what they deserved? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/22 "2004-07-05T19:34:56Z")
Two of them, at least, got exactly what they wanted and consented to. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/23 "2004-07-05T19:39:47Z")
Actually, Monica wanted a fairy tale romance, as young girls tend to do. Her anger is born of his dismissal of her as “that woman”. And Jennifer Flowers wanted him to acknowledge their twelve-year affair. He just wanted to get off. I submit that he’s the only one who got what he wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Shaolinrabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Shaolinrabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shaolinrabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/24 "2004-07-05T19:44:49Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Your defense of his breach is pathetic in se. But your defense of it in the discharge of his public oaths and duties, even as it involved official cover-up, lies to the public, contempt of court, desecration of the Oval Office, and abuse of power, culminating with a $10 million dollar tell-all in which he expresses his own shame and regret for nearly losing his wife and daughter is astoundingly Neanderthal. He made it everyone’s business. And you should be ashamed for championing his abuse of those women, particularly those who clearly did not give him their consent. Are you of the school that they got what they deserved? Yes, **Liberal** I think some women just need some dick whether they know it or not. :dubious: We’ll ignore that for a moment and move on here, what women clearly did not give him their consent? I understand the concepts of the cases involved here, but those are allegations against him, and we don’t really know. I don’t think he did the right thing if he sexually harassed women, I also don’t think it’s right that he used the power of the oval office to try and hide things from people. But I don’t agree that going to look for those things for a politically motivated drive to damage his credibility was right either. I think there was a lot of lying and cheating on both sides of the fence. I think it’s just kind of lame to get so riled over it, really. It’s ugly, but it’s not Iran contra ugly, or bugging the democratic national convention ugly, and that’s the sort of ugly which has been routinely applied to it. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/25 "2004-07-05T20:04:28Z")
**Liberal** , pointing out that something is none of the public’s business is NOT defense of it. My personal opinion of Clinton is that he’s a dirtbag for cheating on his wife (assuming they don’t have an open marrage). Doesn’t make it mine or your business though, or anything to do with the presidency. It was his political enemies that made it public, not him. You do know that, right? And if I believed he raped anybody I’d be first to say he should be jailed for it like any other man. But those allegations seems as pathetically false as the ones that Hillary had Vince Foster killed. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/26 "2004-07-05T20:17:47Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > He did do other things when he was in office. When he left, we had good will from the community of nations…we had a solid economy…he handed over a country with a record low unemployment rate. Really. When you look at all these things, is it THAT important he got a blowjob at the office? I think it’s VERY important that he got a blowjob at the office. In fact, I think we should legislate mandatory oral favors for \*any \* president who can return us to that status & keep us there! ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/27 "2004-07-05T20:51:21Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > **Why the fuck does anyone still care what Clinton did or didn’t do four, eight, 16 or 20 years ago?** > > If he really did rape that girl (whose name is escaping me), it should never be forgotten. > > That’s why men get away with rape. “Get over it, honey, it was 10 years ago.” With an attitude like that no wonder most rape victims don’t even bother pressing charges. And if he ate babies, we should still care. However, there’s no evidence for either. Heck, women have accused both Ronald Reagan and GWB of rape. Should those claims be investigated? Sure. But if they’re obviously false, they shouldn’t be repeated over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/28 "2004-07-05T21:21:32Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > And if he ate babies, we should still care. > > However, there’s no evidence for either. Heck, women have accused both Ronald Reagan and GWB of rape. Should those claims be investigated? Sure. But if they’re obviously false, they shouldn’t be repeated over and over. C’mon, all the Pubbies have is lies. Can’t blame them for repeating them over and over – what else have they got? ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/29 "2004-07-05T21:24:30Z")
This thread is yet more proof of the right-wing mantra “it was never about the sex” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/30 "2004-07-05T21:26:05Z")
Evil Captor do you tend to dismiss every woman that claims she was raped, or only the ones whose politics you disagree with? ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/31 "2004-07-05T21:35:05Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Evil Captor do you tend to dismiss every woman that claims she was raped It looks like Juanita Broaddrick [does not claim she was raped.](http://www.shamema.com/janedoe5.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/32 "2004-07-05T21:37:54Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Evil Captor do you tend to dismiss every woman that claims she was raped, or only the ones whose politics you disagree with? So unproven allegations of rape are of national concern when it’s Bill Clinton, but not when its Dubya or Reagan? The allegations in all of these cases were ridiculous. They didn’t go anywhere because they were obvious attempts to discredit the people in question. If you want to engage in a witch-hunt, I can’t stop you. But it doesn’t do the women who actually _are_ raped any good when cheapen it by using it as a political tool. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/33 "2004-07-05T21:50:03Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > If he really did rape that girl (whose name is escaping me), it should never be forgotten. > > That’s why men get away with rape. “Get over it, honey, it was 10 years ago.” With an attitude like that no wonder most rape victims don’t even bother pressing charges. Go fuck yourself, **Abbie**. Hard. Nobody here is equating _consensual affairs_ with rape, and fuck you for implying that I would. I don’t have the words to tell you how dumb that is. **Lib** , so Flowers wants some recognition of their affair? So what? Why do I give a shit, and why should she have any recognition? If she’s telling the truth and had a long affair with Bill, she knew she was the other woman the whole damn time. Why do we (or why does Clinton) ‘owe’ her some free publicity? Nobody would give a crap about her if she hadn’t gotten involved with him. For a guy who claims to be a libertarian (much less a ‘classic liberal’), you sure do parrot some rightwing bullshit at times. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/34 "2004-07-05T21:59:14Z")
I’m reminded of the joke: She says: Last night, when he picked up up for dinner, he seemed, distant. I tried to gently encourage him to talk, but all through dinner, his eyes wandered, he wouldn’t respond to me. I wondered if I was prying, gently asked, he just looked at me. We went to the movies, and although he put his arm around me, he seemed so unattached, as if he were sitting alone. I went home with him and gently led him to the bedroom, where we caressed each other and I paid especial attention to pleasure him, hoping he’d open up. INstead, he fell asleep. I wonder if I’ve been too demanding, or not open enough with him. Why does he close himself off to me so? He says: Lousy day at work. Got laid, though. Monica and Gennifer have yet to realize how little importance they personally were to him. I recall when it was going on that folks kept saying that since Monica and Bill were recounting different time lines etc, ‘that’s proof Bill’s not telling the truth’. Not to me- I believe that Monica (and probably Gennifer) kept copious notes about all of their encounters, dates, times, details. I don’t think Bill did. I suspect they were all interchangable to him. Paula, hate to break it to you, but do you really believe that he remembers a five minute incident from 20 years ago, especially one in which he **didn’t** get laid? what does this mean today? NOthing that I can see. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/35 "2004-07-05T22:46:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Go fuck yourself, **Abbie**. Hard. Nobody here is equating _consensual affairs_ with rape, and fuck you for implying that I would. I don’t have the words to tell you how dumb that is. Thank you for putting so eloquently that which I was about to post. **Abbie** , _try_ to figure out what the thrust (heh) of the conversation is before running your fucking mouth. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/36 "2004-07-05T23:11:35Z")
> [@Who\_me?](#): > > :::yawn::: > So what? You said it. I mean, I can see why Monica Lewinsky might still have feelings for or against Mr. Clinton, and how it might still be a big issue with her. I just can’t see why **Liberal** ’s still hung up on the guy. I mean, as far as I can tell, he (assuming **Liberal** is male) didn’t even get any sex out of it. That’s gotta be tough, carrying that torch for so long. Buck up, little guy. You’ll find the right person someday. We can’t all get Presidents. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/37 "2004-07-05T23:21:40Z")
Yeah, I just can’t let it go. That’s why I paid him $10 million to write his book and whore it out on the talk show circuits last week. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/38 "2004-07-05T23:24:59Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > We can’t all get Presidents. But ya gotta admit, Clinton is probably a nobody’s best chance to GET a president… ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/39 "2004-07-06T04:30:49Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > And Jennifer Flowers wanted him to acknowledge their twelve-year affair. Wow! Someone who actually believes that Gennifer (with a G) Flowers was telling the truth to that supermarket tabloid. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628/40 "2004-07-06T06:51:46Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Yeah, I just can’t let it go. That’s why I paid him $10 million to write his book and whore it out on the talk show circuits last week. And he shackled you to that chair and strapped your head down in that restraint and glued your eyelids open so you were _forced_ to watch all that coverage, eh? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/four-women-defend-their-former-lover/253628.md?page=3)