# Fox: 102 year old woman had to wait in line 3 hours to vote, "What's the big deal?" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380 "2013-02-15T14:15:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/181 "2013-02-16T16:55:15Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What do you argue with that asshole for? It’s Saturday morning, I’m bored, and I know I’m right. What else am I going to do, watch Mythbusters? Actually, that sounds pretty good, now that I think about it… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/182 "2013-02-16T16:58:49Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What do you argue with that asshole for? This is the same douche that argues for voter ID laws that cure a problem that does not exist, costs money to implement, and disenfranchises Democratic voters. Spending money to cure a problem that does not exist is fine when it makes Republicans more likely to win, spending money to address a problem that does exist so that Democrats might find it easier to vote is a waste of taxpayer money. Leave it to you to get all meta and make a good observation like this. His MO is really to just chum shit in order to obfuscate. Working from a very partisan agenda, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/183 "2013-02-16T16:58:49Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > A three-hour line to vote is unacceptable, regardless of the age or race of the voter. If the public officials in charge of running elections can’t guarantee a reasonably quick and uncomplicated in-person voting experience, then they should not have in-person voting and should have absentee only. If polling places are open, you should be able to go to one and cast your vote on your lunch break from work. Having a three-hour line places an unreasonable burden on voters. And while absentee voting is certainly an option, so is voting at the polling place. When I drop my absentee ballot into the mail, I expect that it will be transmitted by the post office in a timely fashion and that it will be appropriately counted, and if it’s not, that’s a problem. If I show up at my polling place, I expect that I will be allowed to cast my vote in a timely fashion, and if I’m not, that’s a problem. > > If electronic voting machines cause backups and delays to this extent, then we can go back to casting paper ballots. I realize that they aren’t without their own set of problems, but at least you typically don’t have to stand in line for three hours waiting for a spot to open up so you can fill in a Scantron sheet with a No. 2 pencil. First, I agree with this for the most part. The “ultra-long voting lines” phenomen didn’t even exist until about 12 years ago and now it seems only to exist in swing states. I live in an urban area in a Blue state and I’ve never had to brave lines to vote to anywhere near this extent. I remember my Mom calling me in 2004 asking if i’d had to wait in line to vote…I was rather puzzled by the question and said " well, there was someone ahead of me when I went to sign in but by the time I got to the machines there was one available." But to the particular situation under discussion…whatever happened to freakin’ common courtesy?? A close friend of mine was dying of pancreatic cancer in Novemeber 2004, and when he went to vote the the people in line immediately insisted he move to the front of the hours long line ( and they even insisted that his wife move to the front as well, although she wanted to let him vote, drive him home and come back herself to stand in line). Even though I’ve never encountered a voting line, this is a situation I’ve seen about a million times in long restroom lines and it’s really a no-brainer, if I had been in that line I would’ve seen that she got moved to the front. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/184 "2013-02-16T17:00:50Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > But to the particular situation under discussion…whatever happened to freakin’ common courtesy?? A close friend of mine was dying of pancreatic acancer in Novemeber 2004, and when he went to vote the the people in line immediately insisted he move to the front of the hours long line ( and they even insisted that his wife move to the front as well, although she wanted to let him vote, drive him home and come back herself to stand in line). Even though I’ve never encountered a voting line, this is a situation I’ve seen about a million times in long restroom lines and it’s really a no-brainer, if I had been in that line I would’ve seen that she got moved to the front. Yeah, the solution to the problem is simply that we kindly rank order ourselves by relative infirmity, so that only people who can easily endure the six hour wait do so. No muss, no fuss, no cost. Great solution! ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/185 "2013-02-16T17:01:12Z")
How about everybody votes through absentee ballots. Then nobody has to have an I.D. to vote, there are no lines to wait in and the USPS receives a boost! Of course, then voter fraud is made that much easier… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/186 "2013-02-16T17:14:47Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > We wouldn’t be able to guarantee anything–this is your retarded straw man. What we WOULD be able to do is reduce the average wait time and inter-precinct variability. My strawman? > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > What is big deal that _anyone_ has to wait in line 3 hours to vote. Queue theory is a well-understood branch of mathematics. You have a list of eligible voters. You have historical voter turnout figures. Compute the number of machines needed to satisfy a given wait time, with generous padding for higher than average turnout (I say 51 minutes is too long). Write a law that says wait times shall be measured, and if any voter’s wait exceeds the legal limit, that is grounds for impeaching that state’s secretary of state. Well? Others have proposed reasonable statements: > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Let’s do better than that, shall we? > > The _average_ should be well under _one_ hour. Do you see me arguing with that? No. That’s very likely a perfectly achievable goal. But learn to read, dummy: I didn’t strawman up a proposal that says “No matter what the cost” we need to “make sure that nobody has to wait more than an hour in order to vote in person at the polls.” I did not author the “Write a law that says wait times shall be measured, and if any voter’s wait exceeds the legal limit, that is grounds for impeaching that state’s secretary of state.” Did I? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/187 "2013-02-16T17:17:16Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > But to the particular situation under discussion…whatever happened to freakin’ common courtesy?? I’m inclined to agree, but alas I cannot. Letting someone have frontsies only works when everyone else in line is fine about it. You let 102-year-old lady have frontsies, and then the 95-year-old man even farther back in line wants to be fast-tracked. And then Forty-Year-Old Dude who is already late for work sees all this and flips out. And why wouldn’t he? He just got back from Iraq, and hell, he’s got bad hemorroids too. Doesn’t he deserve some consideration? Frontsies works when you’re in line at the grocery store and you have 100 items and the girl behind you only has one item and she isn’t cutting in front of anyone except for you. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/188 "2013-02-16T17:17:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This is hilarious. > > You were doing fine until you got to the impeachment part. I am not surprised that you find accountability hilarious. Sure, let’s pretend to care it’s all about numbers, let’s pretend to make an effort… just as long as nobody’s held accountable, because then you can feel safe knowing it’s never actually going to happen. > [@](#): > > But – typical for a liberal here on the SDMB, it seems – you have no idea what this means. You don’t understand the cost differential between average and maximum. I suppose you are just pulling together some figures to demonstrate the cost differential, because otherwise you’d be just a typical conservative here on the SDMB… you don’t understand what the cost differential is, and you don’t need to, because the cost that’s important to you is the political cost to Republicans of letting more voters cast their ballots. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/189 "2013-02-16T17:17:32Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Perhaps you are operating under the mistaken impression that I think we should set things up so that it is _literally impossible_ for anyone to ever experience a long wait. That would be a stupid thing to say, and I suppose that if you think all liberals are stupid, it would be reasonable for you to assume that I meant such a thing. However, that is not what I said. I said that it is unacceptable for such a thing to happen, meaning that if it does, we need to analyze the situation and make changes to our procedures so that it doesn’t continue to happen in the future. I don’t expect the NTSB to make it literally impossible for a plane to fall out of the sky, but I do expect them to analyze the aftermath of plane crashes so that we can determine what happened and stop it from happening again. (They do this quite well and without bankrupting the nation, FYI.) Yes, that’s a very reasonable reformulation. But let’s kindly not pretend that you meant that all along, please. Nowhere in your earlier posts do you disclaim your literal meaning – and most tellingly, nowhere do you take issue with anyone else who also posts unmistakably literal formulations. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/190 "2013-02-16T17:19:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What do you argue with that asshole for? This is the same douche that argues for voter ID laws that cure a problem that does not exist, costs money to implement, and disenfranchises Democratic voters. Spending money to cure a problem that does not exist is fine when it makes Republicans more likely to win, spending money to address a problem that does exist so that Democrats might find it easier to vote is a waste of taxpayer money. And not only that, he’s pretty much admitted that the “problem” of vote fraud is miniscule, and the thing he’s trying to fix is “voter confidence in the system”. Which confidence is actually being eroded not by factual information, but rather by misinformation put out by those who want Voter ID laws! Nice! And he has said (paraphrased) that if this results in less turnout from Democrat voters leading to more Republican victories - well that’s just tough luck. If it’s legal, they can do it, and anyway both sides are the same. It’s anti-democratic, it’s pathetic and at it’s core it is disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/191 "2013-02-16T17:20:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, that’s a very reasonable reformulation. > > But let’s kindly not pretend that you meant that all along, please. Nowhere in your earlier posts do you disclaim your literal meaning – and most tellingly, nowhere do you take issue with anyone else who also posts unmistakably literal formulations. You ran wild with a ridiculous assumption and now you’re trying to cover your ass. Glad to see you finally admit that I’m right about the point I’ve been making ever since I first entered this thread. Too bad it took four pages to get here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/192 "2013-02-16T17:47:20Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > No, it is not OK to have three-hour waits for any election. Yes, we need to understand what the costs are before implementing any solution. But you appear to be suggesting that there are scenarios in which it would be acceptable to force people to wait in line several hours in order to cast a ballot. No. That is not acceptable in this democracy. If we come up with a solution that turns out to be prohibitively expensive, then we find another solution that isn’t. And before you start coming up with nonsense scenarios like, “What if there’s a hurricane” or “what if an asteroid hits the polling place,” I will remind you that after a giant hole got blown in the middle of NYC on September 11, 2001, the primary election was delayed in that city, because it was considered unreasonable for people to have to wade through the aftermath of a terrorist attack in order to vote. That is an acceptable backup solution. We are intelligent, capable people, and we can devise solutions to the problem of people having to wait in long lines to vote. For you to suggest otherwise is, as I said, embarrassing. **Bricker** : I think that in fairness to **MsWhatsit** , you should acknowledge this post. It kinda cuts through a lot of the argument you have been having with her and explains her position in a reasonable way. This was back on the previous page, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/193 "2013-02-16T17:52:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > **Bricker** : I think that in fairness to **MsWhatsit** , you should acknowledge this post. It kinda cuts through a lot of the argument you have been having with her and explains her position in a reasonable way. > > This was back on the previous page, btw. Yes, it does. But help me out here, John. Please reconcile this: > [@](#): > > Yes, we need to understand what the costs are before implementing any solution. With this: > [@](#): > > Am I saying that we must fix this no matter what the expense? Yes. I absolutely agree with the first quote, and absolutely disagree with the second. Problem is, they address the same subject and come from the same person. So which face of Eve is the real one? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/194 "2013-02-16T17:54:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, that’s a very reasonable reformulation. > > But let’s kindly not pretend that you meant that all along, please. Nowhere in your earlier posts do you disclaim your literal meaning – and most tellingly, nowhere do you take issue with anyone else who also posts unmistakably literal formulations. A **Bricker** daily double!!! “You didn’t disclaim a painfully stupid literal re-interpretation of your position” and “You failed in your responsibility to decry every other post and poster who I see as aligning with your position. You must shepherd all others or you are not acting in good faith!” Comedy gold, Jerry! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/195 "2013-02-16T17:55:46Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > You ran wild with a ridiculous assumption and now you’re trying to cover your ass. Glad to see you finally admit that I’m right about the point I’ve been making ever since I first entered this thread. Too bad it took four pages to get here. The only ridiculous assumption I made was reading and quoting your words, it seems, since you’re now backing away from them at nearly lightspeed. So do me the favor of restating your position now. Let’s forget all that’s been said. Hi, Ms. Whatsit; great to meet you. Nice weather we’re having. Little warm for this time of year, though. Say, crazy about these long voting times, eh? What do you think we ought to do? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/196 "2013-02-16T17:57:01Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > “You didn’t disclaim a painfully stupid literal re-interpretation of your position” I put her words in quote tags. If you believe I changed them in any way, you ought to report me. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/197 "2013-02-16T18:00:45Z")
“Face of Eve?” Are you for real with this? I will make this as clear as I possibly can for you: Before implementing a solution, we should analyze the costs involved, as that will undoubtedly be part of choosing an effective solution. But even if all solutions turn out to be equally expensive, or some people would rather not pay the costs involved, “not fixing it” is not acceptable. It must be fixed; in the process of fixing it, analyzing the cost of various solutions is appropriate. Not fixing it is not appropriate or acceptable. I imagine that you are probably embarrassed about your posts in this thread right now, but that is no excuse for failing to understand something this simple. You decided to make up a hypothetical situation (“the solution might increase taxes by 50%!”) based on absolutely nothing at all, and then you started responding to other people’s posts as though they were debating your pretend hypothetical situation with you instead of the actual topic of debate. And then you have the temerity to accuse me of not being clear. Give me a break. Like I said, I’m glad you concede that I’m right. I’m going to go watch Mythbusters now. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/198 "2013-02-16T18:15:37Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > What IS a reasonable wait time? I have no idea. Some have said under 1 hour. Others under 3 hours. Does the government (forget political party) HAVE to aim for these times or SHOULD? Is the goal under 1 hour? For everyone? At all times, an average time, median time, etc? These are undefined goals and it seems any time higher than “any time I have ever seen” or “times I think are unreasonable” is not only a wrong answer, it’s an evil answer. I think what Bricker wanted to say is that without rules, much less guidelines, in a country of 201.5 million eligible voters, some old lady somewhere is bound to have a long-ish wait time. All this outrage over a lone outlier. What is a reasonable amount of in person voter fraud? How much would it cost to implement voter ID laws? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/199 "2013-02-16T18:15:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, it does. > > But help me out here, John. Please reconcile this: > > With this: > > I absolutely agree with the first quote, and absolutely disagree with the second. > > Problem is, they address the same subject and come from the same person. > > So which face of Eve is the real one? I think it’s pretty easy. She said this: > [@MW](#): > > If we come up with a solution that turns out to be prohibitively expensive, then we find another solution that isn’t… We are intelligent, capable people, and we can devise solutions to the problem of people having to wait in long lines to vote. Which is not all that different from this: > [@Bricker](#): > > I am virtually certain that a vast majority of the voting public do not wish to pay the money it would take to create polling places in which we were guaranteed no wait times exceed three hours. IOW, without actually doing the math, you both made statements about costs. She’s certain there is a way to “fix this” that isn’t prohibitively expensive just as you are certain that folks won’t be willing to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/200 "2013-02-16T18:24:17Z")
So once again Bricker is a complete bitch and disrupts an entire thread and then pretends that he’s the wide-eyed innocent. If Bricker had to wait in line for three hours he’d be indignant. But a poor Democrat having to wait? That’s just what they have coming for raising Bricker’s taxes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380.md?page=11)