# Fox: 102 year old woman had to wait in line 3 hours to vote, "What's the big deal?" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380 "2013-02-15T14:15:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/221 "2013-02-16T20:08:22Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > **Max** , are you white knighting Bricker again? > > An estimate reported by the Orlando Sentinel was that 201,000 people ended up not voting due to wait times in Florida. This is not a trivial problem. When they had multiple days on which to vote, and the option of voting by post? Yeah, that isn’t a problem with the infrastructure. One day I may get bored watching **Bricker** dismantle the arguments of retarded lefties with surgical precision, but I doubt that day will come soon. It’s simple. Either the organisations conducting these elections broke the law, or they didn’t. If they did, they should be held to account. If not, what they did was acceptable. If you dislike the law, change it - your side is, after all, in power now. I’m assuming that, as so many people are asserting that it would be cheap to do, the people in these areas wouldn’t mind their taxes going up to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/222 "2013-02-16T20:17:43Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > … **Bricker** does this for the same reason a dog licks his balls. Shame, sir! Shame! You have no evidence whatsoever of any dog, anywhere, at any time, licking **Bricker’s** balls! Pix. or it didn’t happen! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/223 "2013-02-16T20:32:29Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > When they had multiple days on which to vote, and the option of voting by post? Yeah, that isn’t a problem with the infrastructure. > > One day I may get bored watching **Bricker** dismantle the arguments of retarded lefties with surgical precision, but I doubt that day will come soon. > > It’s simple. Either the organisations conducting these elections broke the law, or they didn’t. If they did, they should be held to account. If not, what they did was acceptable. If you dislike the law, change it - your side is, after all, in power now. > > I’m assuming that, as so many people are asserting that it would be cheap to do, the people in these areas wouldn’t mind their taxes going up to pay for it. Elections are controlled by the states, and FL is controlled by Republicans (the legislature, that is). The feds have only so much they can do. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/224 "2013-02-16T20:39:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > An empty-headed liberal American, genus _impracticalis_. > > “I don’t know what the cost is, I don’t care what the cost is, we have to fix it!” > > _ **I support fixing it, if the price is reasonable** _. I don’t support fixing it at any price. > > This is why liberals like you are children – you’re like kids in a Toys R Us, wanting the things you see with no conception or care about cost. No, we’re grownups who say we’ll pay what we need to pay to fix the plumbing, when we know full well that it will cost a good deal less than the home entertainment system we just dropped a bundle on without considering the cost. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/225 "2013-02-16T20:48:04Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > When they had multiple days on which to vote, and the option of voting by post? Yeah, that isn’t a problem with the infrastructure. > > One day I may get bored watching **Bricker** dismantle the arguments of retarded lefties with surgical precision, but I doubt that day will come soon. > > It’s simple. Either the organisations conducting these elections broke the law, or they didn’t. If they did, they should be held to account. If not, what they did was acceptable. If you dislike the law, change it - your side is, after all, in power now. > > I’m assuming that, as so many people are asserting that it would be cheap to do, the people in these areas wouldn’t mind their taxes going up to pay for it. So you don’t really understand this issue at all. Arrogance \*and \*ineptitude, you sir, are 21st century conservatism made into mouth-breathing flesh. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/226 "2013-02-16T20:55:21Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It’s simple. Either the organisations conducting these elections broke the law, or they didn’t. If they did, they should be held to account. If not, what they did was acceptable. If you dislike the law, change it - your side is, after all, in power now. Ahhhh, the old “if it’s legal, it’s acceptable.” I never, ever get tired of that one. Have you figured out yet that folks are discussing it BECAUSE THEY WANT THE LAWS CHANGED? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/227 "2013-02-16T20:57:42Z")
It is a simple and elegant solution! People who are disadvantaged in the exercise of their voting rights should simply vote for candidates who will change the laws! “Doctor, I can’t swallow!” “Take these two tablets and call me in the morning.” “But, doctor, I can’t swallow them!” “Take these two suppositories, and call me in the morning.” ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/228 "2013-02-16T20:58:37Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > So you don’t really understand this issue at all. > > Arrogance \*and \*ineptitude, you sir, are 21st century conservatism made into mouth-breathing flesh. Nope, I understand it. People, who have had to queue many times in the past to fill out a ridiculously complicated voting form, are somehow surprised when they have to queue again, despite their unexplained refusal to use one of the other options available to them. They’re not victims, they’re idiots. Of course, the Republicans are trying to get elected. That’s what politicians _do_ - all of them, or at least all the successful ones. The answer here is the same as in the voter ID thread. Instead of whinging about it, Democrats should turn it to their advantage. Get people to use postal votes, let them know they can vote at their convenience, and increase the turnout. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/229 "2013-02-16T21:02:38Z")
**Steophan** has no need of facts! He feels the TRUTH! And that is that only sloth could explain any difficulty in voting. Analysis? Data? Documentary evidence? I see your empiricism and I show you the Handwave of TRUTH! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/230 "2013-02-16T21:03:06Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Ahhhh, the old “if it’s legal, it’s acceptable.” > > I never, ever get tired of that one. > > Have you figured out yet that folks are discussing it BECAUSE THEY WANT THE LAWS CHANGED? Yes, if it’s legal it’s acceptable. That’s why we have laws, to codify, deter, and punish unacceptable behaviour. If enough people want the laws changed, and want it badly enough to pay for it\*, they will be changed. That’s how it works. \*Either financially, or by dealing with whatever consequences come from the change. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/231 "2013-02-16T21:06:51Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Nope, I understand it. People, who have had to queue many times in the past to fill out a ridiculously complicated voting form, are somehow surprised when they have to queue again, despite their unexplained refusal to use one of the other options available to them. If you want to do away with in-person voting, advocate that. Voting to some is a social experience. They don’t do it because they’re stupid. They do it because they are part of a community. > [@](#): > > They’re not victims, they’re idiots. It isn’t insane to expect that a poor community can have voting times of under an hour. > [@](#): > > Of course, the Republicans are trying to get elected. That’s what politicians _do_ - all of them, or at least all the successful ones. The difference, friend Steophan, is that Democrats want more people to vote because it helps their prospects. Republicans want fewer people to vote because it helps their prospects. One of these is compatible with American ideals. > [@](#): > > The answer here is the same as in the voter ID thread. Instead of whinging about it, Democrats should turn it to their advantage. Get people to use postal votes, let them know they can vote at their convenience, and increase the turnout. As I say, if you’re gonna disallow in-person voting make that case. I vote in Washington and it certainly works. But if you’re allowing in-person voting, you need to make those votes count and not turn people away with outrageous waits. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/232 "2013-02-16T21:08:06Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It is a simple and elegant solution! People who are disadvantaged in the exercise of their voting rights should simply vote for candidates who will change the laws! Correct. It’s always amusing when, in your sarcasm, you answer the question correctly. I assume you are too stupid to realise how often you do this. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > **Steophan** has no need of facts! He feels the TRUTH! And that is that only sloth could explain any difficulty in voting. > > Analysis? Data? Documentary evidence? I see your empiricism and I show you the Handwave of TRUTH! This would be more meaningful if you’d ever provided any facts. All you seem to do is follow **Bricker** around, saying a slightly less meaningful variant on “no u”. But yes, if someone is given multiple opportunities to vote, including doing so _at home, at their leisure_, then there is no excuse for not being able to vote. This is the whole point here. The complaints hinge on the assumption that people were not given reasonable opportunity to vote. They were, and refused to take it. They were not disenfranchised, they chose not to exercise their right. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/233 "2013-02-16T21:10:11Z")
You currently register 890 millilbrickers on the scale of electoral cynicism. You’ve a ways to go, of course. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/234 "2013-02-16T21:39:12Z")
I really do think the best solution is a public awareness campaign to encourage people to vote by mail. It’s a lot easier than trying to fix umpteen number of polling districts. I don’t think this would cost all that much-- I’m sure TV stations could be “encouraged” to make public awareness announcements, and people should be given instructions for voting by mail when they register. Every registered voter could be sent an application for an absentee ballot. And long term, transition to 100% vote by mail. Some states already do this. In CA, I think we’re up to about 30% of voters voting by mail. This is not socket rurgery. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/235 "2013-02-16T21:50:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You currently register 890 millilbrickers on the scale of electoral cynicism. You’ve a ways to go, of course. That’s probably the nicest thing anyone’s ever said to me. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/236 "2013-02-16T22:01:10Z")
I find it pretty astonishing that people are apparently seriously arguing that paying for sufficient election infrastructure to make voting not terribly burdensome might be too expensive for a wealthy democracy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/237 "2013-02-16T22:03:09Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > I find it pretty astonishing that people are apparently seriously arguing that paying for sufficient election infrastructure to make voting not terribly burdensome might be too expensive for a wealthy democracy. Well, I’d be against spending more money on “voting infrastructure” if my state allowed vote-by-mail for everyone. It’s like buying more fax machines to accommodate the shrinking number of non-email users. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/238 "2013-02-16T22:04:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The answer here is the same as in the voter ID thread. Instead of whinging about it, Democrats should turn it to their advantage. Get people to use postal votes, let them know they can vote at their convenience, and increase the turnout. Neither side should be trying to turn this situation to their advantage. This is the kind of partisan bullshit that is to be avoided when the topic is access to the polls. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I really do think the best solution is a public awareness campaign to encourage people to vote by mail. It’s a lot easier than trying to fix umpteen number of polling districts. Agreed. I know a lot of people who, prior to the last election here, still thought that you were only allowed to vote absentee/early if you had a valid reason for not being able to go to the polls on Election Day. But Franklin County pushed early voting pretty hard in TV/radio commercials and the like, and it proved pretty successful. (And not insanely expensive.) > [@Gorsnak](#): > > I find it pretty astonishing that people are apparently seriously arguing that paying for sufficient election infrastructure to make voting not terribly burdensome might be too expensive for a wealthy democracy. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/239 "2013-02-16T22:06:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > So… I am asking you to address the case I am asking about: There is NO solution to voter fraud that is not prohibitively expensive. Can you design a system that guarantees what specifically? That there will never be voter fraud at all? > [@Bricker](#): > > Voter ID is not intended to stop an illegal vote in the sense that it prevents one from being cast; it stops illegal votes by building a record that allows a conviction to happen. Which this case will, apparently. From [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15590244&postcount=2651). IMO, analogous to the position offered by MsWhatsit here: > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I said that it is unacceptable for such a thing to happen, meaning that if it does, we need to analyze the situation and make changes to our procedures so that it doesn’t continue to happen in the future. > [@Bricker](#): > > But I have no objection to beefing up absentee balloting ID proofing. From [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15482961&postcount=2392). > [@Bricker](#): > > The Voter ID issue is inherently a subjective one. We must weigh the interest in assuring that the registered voter is the person casting a ballot in the name of the registered voter against the difficulty in obtaining that assurance. The more difficult the process, of course, the more we hurt voter participation. But there’s no objective scale involved – we have a subjective determination in how much weight we assign to the importance of identifying voters and how much difficulty that’s worth as a trade-off. From [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15331697&postcount=2041). > [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, to me it seems the fingerprint is cheaper than issuing ID cards, provides greater proof for a prosecutor, and as you say would be intimidating only to someone with something to hide. From [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15702048&postcount=3064). Bricker, is Obama the leader of the representative democracy you reside in? What cost would be worthwhile to ensure that fewer than 129 voters are discouraged by the length of lines at voting stations? Is limiting waiting time incurred at a polling station a legitimate goal of the state? Also, would a law enacted by your elected representatives such as the Voter Empowerment Act be valid and constitutional? In a representative democracy, who determines the correct balance of risk and expenditure? On what basis do you think that fingerprinting is cheaper than issuing ID cards? Is it incumbent on an individual to support the cheaper of two equally effective methods of resolving a problem, regardless of the popularity of the cheaper method? > [@Bricker](#): > > Should we raise taxes by 50%? That will kill the economy – if it turns out that’s what’s needed, should we do it? Who gets to decide the percentage cut-off point for “kill[ing] the economy”? > [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > An estimate reported by the Orlando Sentinel was that 201,000 people ended up not voting due to wait times in Florida. [Here](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-01-29/business/os-voter-lines-statewide-20130118_1_long-lines-sentinel-analysis-state-ken-detzner) is the article in question. The [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/05/us/politics/waiting-times-to-vote-at-polls-draw-scrutiny.html?_r=0) reports that MIT found blacks and Hispanics waited twice as long as whites on average. [Here](http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/02/05/us/politics/how-long-it-took-groups-to-vote.html?ref=politics) is their graph of mean times. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/240 "2013-02-16T22:31:04Z")
If they reside in a district that is economically disadvantaged, they should simply move to a better neighborhood! Pull themselves into the voting booth by their own bootstraps, in a convoluted manner of speaking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380.md?page=13)