# Fox: 102 year old woman had to wait in line 3 hours to vote, "What's the big deal?" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380 "2013-02-15T14:15:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/281 "2013-02-17T01:46:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Data can’t use contractions. I hate to do this. But in “Encounter at Farpoint,” Admiral McCoy snarls at Data, “Have you got some reason to want my atoms scattered all over space?” Data replies: > [@](#): > > No sir. But at your age, sir, I thought you shouldn’t have to put up with the time and trouble of a shuttlecraft. Emphasis added. [Cite.](http://tng.trekcore.com/episodes/scripts/102.txt) Lobohan is wrong in saying I am willing to be dishonest. But he’s right about one thing: I like to be right. A lot. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/282 "2013-02-17T02:00:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, but you guys are Canadian, and you’re nice. 🙂 Canadian Exceptionalism? 😛 In fairness, part of your issue is the insane length of some ballots. Not only directly elected positions from judge to dogcatcher, but propositions galore. We vote for one position in federal and provincial elections, and two (mayor + councilor) in municipal. 15 seconds in the booth, tops, unless you get caught up debating with yourself between the Communist and Marxist-Leninist candidates. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/283 "2013-02-17T02:02:30Z")
OK, so we adopt the **Mace** Plan, with minor amendments and inclusions. Thus insuring that any qualified voter in the country can vote with a minimum of disruption or difficulty. All of those people who walked away from voting place lines, all those people who were discouraged or misinformed, all of the people who can’t get the time or can’t pay for state ID, all of them are happily folded into the voter turnout. Which expands dramatically, especially amongst those people who previously had the most trouble - the poor, the minority, students, elderly… And the Republicans are going to go wild with enthusiastic support. Nothing could make them happier than a vastly expanded voter turnout, especially among such groups as the urban poor. So, this is the plan? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/284 "2013-02-17T02:11:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What kind of confirmation do you receive when you vote by mail? I’ve been doing it for decades, and I’ve never gotten any kind of “confirmation”. This is exactly why you will always have a critical mass of people who will refuse to vote by mail. Rightly or wrongly, voting in person gives the perception of control and oversight that a mail-in ballot lacks. > [@](#): > > Do you have evidence that voting by mail is significantly less secure than voting in person? I’ve had all kinds of screwy things happen when I’ve put stuff in the mail. Haven’t you? And of course an isolated street-corner mailbox is less secure than a voting precinct full of people, including security guards. I wouldn’t be dumb enough to drop my ballot in an isolated street-corner mailbox, mind you, but commonsense has never been a requirement for voting. And all it takes is some party goon to drop an exploding ink pack into a popular mailbox on Election Day, and you’ve potentially got a whole slew of folks disenfranchised with no recourse. Make mail-in voting the norm, and you will see sabotaging like this. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/285 "2013-02-17T02:15:55Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > This is exactly why you will always have a critical mass of people who will refuse to vote by mail. Rightly or wrongly, voting in person gives the perception of control and oversight that a mail-in ballot lacks. > > I’ve had all kinds of screwy things happen when I’ve put stuff in the mail. Haven’t you? > > And of course an isolated street-corner mailbox is less secure than a voting precinct full of people, including security guards. I wouldn’t be dumb enough to drop my ballot in an isolated street-corner mailbox, mind you, but commonsense has never been a requirement for voting. And all it takes is some party goon to drop an exploding ink pack into a popular mailbox on Election Day, and you’ve potentially got a whole slew of folks disenfranchised with no recourse. Make mail-in voting the norm, and you will see sabotaging like this. Some states allow you you to drop off your mail-in ballot at any polling place. This seems to be a good compromise for those who don’t want to stand in line to vote, don’t trust the mail, or want to wait until the last minute. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/286 "2013-02-17T02:25:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Some states allow you you to drop off your mail-in ballot at any polling place. This seems to be a good compromise for those who don’t want to stand in line to vote, don’t trust the mail, or want to wait until the last minute. Hmm. How about mail-_out_ ballots (or download pdf and print) and in-person strike the name from the voter roll and stick the ballot in the box. Throw in some optical scanners, and you’re off to the races. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/287 "2013-02-17T02:26:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Lobohan is wrong in saying I am willing to be dishonest. > > But he’s right about one thing: I like to be right. A lot. No, you like to **WIN**. You’ve been conflating these two things since you were a child. They are not synonymous. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/288 "2013-02-17T02:29:25Z")
But Bricker wasn’t always this bad. I remember him being a reasonable person, even when I disagreed with him. What happened to him? What did the 2012 election do to him, to make him this petty? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/289 "2013-02-17T02:45:50Z")
For shits and giggles, Wiki’d the Oregon mailing ballot measure. Excerpts: > **[Vote-by-mail in Oregon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote-by-mail_in_Oregon)** > > The U.S. state of Oregon established vote-by-mail as the standard mechanism for voting with Ballot Measure 60, a citizen's initiative, in 1998. The measure made Oregon the first state in the United States to conduct its elections exclusively by mail. The measure passed on November 3, 1998, by a margin of 69.4% to 30.6%. Political scientists say Oregon's vote by mail system contributes to its highest-in-the-nation rate of voter turnout, at 61.5% of eligible voters. > Vote-by-mail had already bee... Under the heading “Supporters” > [@](#): > > …Supporters of the measure asserted that it would increase voter participation and make elections more convenient for voters. The State of Oregon would also save an estimated $3 million dollars a year… So, what’s not to love? Heading “Opponents” > [@](#): > > …Notable opposition to the measure included State Representative Lynn Snodgrass and anti-tax activist Bill Sizemore… Go ahead. Guess. Now, guess “why?” > [@](#): > > …Opponents claimed the system would invite election fraud as well as the possibility of people pressuring each other in terms of how they vote.[4] Sizemore stated in an online column in April 2003 that the vote-by-mail system “is a formula for election fraud.”… Republicans have typically, if not invariably, resisted efforts to expand voting. Why do you think they murdered ACORN? Lately, they’ve begun to panic. Some of them are convinced the lefties are cheating (we ain’t that smart). Others can see the handwriting on the wall. (So can we. _That_ smart, we are.) Any of these plans might be dandy, but if they have the desirable effect of expanding the voter rolls to be more inclusive and equitable, any Republican who votes for it is writing his political suicide note. And if they need to cook up a rationalization, they got smart guys who are dedicated to that. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/290 "2013-02-17T06:08:37Z")
As a reminder, she waited in line for EARLY VOTING (not like the clock was ticking on the last day of the election), she CAST HER VOTE, it was COUNTED, and HER GUY WON. Therefore, again, why is this a story? She was inconvenienced, not disenfranchised. If anything, we should be saluting **her** persistence, not trying to make a Federal case out of having to wait three hours. If waiting three hours is a civil rights issue (or whatever some are trying to turn this in to), then most state’s DMV offices should be shut down and their staff prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/291 "2013-02-17T07:44:51Z")
“You guys won despite our best efforts at un-democratic disenfranchisement, so why are you trying to fix things ahead of time now instead of let us try it again?” ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/292 "2013-02-17T08:10:33Z")
/me sees thread. “How the fuck did _that_ get to be six pages long? Oh. Right. Bricker.” ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/293 "2013-02-17T08:42:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > OK, so we adopt the **Mace** Plan, with minor amendments and inclusions. Thus insuring that any qualified voter in the country can vote with a minimum of disruption or difficulty. All of those people who walked away from voting place lines, all those people who were discouraged or misinformed, all of the people who can’t get the time or can’t pay for state ID, all of them are happily folded into the voter turnout. Which expands dramatically, especially amongst those people who previously had the most trouble - the poor, the minority, students, elderly… > > And the Republicans are going to go wild with enthusiastic support. Nothing could make them happier than a vastly expanded voter turnout, especially among such groups as the urban poor. > > So, this is the plan? No, one would expect the Republicans to do everything they can (legally) to oppose a plan that would make them less likely to win. That’s what they should do, anyway. One would expect the Democrats to do the same. As long as they work within the rules, it’s not an issue > [@monstro](#): > > This is exactly why you will always have a critical mass of people who will refuse to vote by mail. Rightly or wrongly, voting in person gives the perception of control and oversight that a mail-in ballot lacks. You will, and they are all idiots. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/294 "2013-02-17T12:57:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This is such a stupid issue, I can’t believe anyone is trotting it out. There is always a problem that, after you vote, you’ll find something out about the candidate. It’s true if you vote 1 week before election day or if you vote on election day. I strongly agree with this. Also, it reduces the potential effect of one side’s saving some mini-scandal for the last minute, when the other side wouldn’t have time to fully respond before people voted. > [@](#): > > I agree about FL, though. Anyone worried about waiting in line, and who doesn’t vote by mail, is doing something wrong. I don’t think many voters realize it’s an option. It is in Maryland, but I only found out just now when I went to the Maryland State Board of Elections website, and I’ve been living here nearly 15 years. Hell, even [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_voting#United_States) seems to think of it as something they do out in Oregon and Washington. So yeah, publicizing the vote-by-mail option seems to be the first thing a state ought to try, to bring lines down. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/295 "2013-02-17T13:48:58Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > So yeah, publicizing the vote-by-mail option seems to be the first thing a state ought to try, to bring lines down. A low cost option. One with the seeming potential for high effectiveness. I like it. Therefore, I predict it will be opposed vociferously by the hot-headed liberals. I predict people will manufacture outrage about how important in-person voting is. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/296 "2013-02-17T13:59:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A low cost option. One with the seeming potential for high effectiveness. > > I like it. > > Therefore, I predict it will be opposed vociferously by the hot-headed liberals. I guess you’re too stupid to read the article that **elucidator** linked to showing the complete opposite. If your panties were in a bunch over imaginary voting fraud, you can’t possibly like mail-in voting. I don’t see how a reasonable person can hold these two positions simultaneously. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/297 "2013-02-17T14:02:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A low cost option. One with the seeming potential for high effectiveness. > > I like it. > > Therefore, I predict it will be opposed vociferously by the hot-headed liberals. I predict people will manufacture outrage about how important in-person voting is. Well I for one don’t have a problem with it, but I appreciate your showing everyone what a petty sniveling bitch you are with your prediction. Given your desperate little hard-on for voter fraud - or to be more specific, for requiring photo voter ID- I’m surprised you would favor it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/298 "2013-02-17T15:29:49Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I guess you’re too stupid to read the article that **elucidator** linked to showing the complete opposite. > > If your panties were in a bunch over imaginary voting fraud, you can’t possibly like mail-in voting. I don’t see how a reasonable person can hold these two positions simultaneously. I’m sure you don’t. But mail-in voting easily lends itself to accounting for one person, one vote. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/299 "2013-02-17T15:46:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m sure you don’t. > > But mail-in voting easily lends itself to accounting for one person, one vote. Is this supposed to be self-evident, or are you waiting for a formal invitation to finish your thoughts? I’ll guess I’ll bite: How is it _more_ secure than voting at a precinct, in front of election officials and security guards, where you are required to show an ID? Mail-in voting is more convenient and cheaper than the alternative. But with advantages there trade-offs. The biggest trade-off with mail-in voting lies squarely on the one thing that you had a serious problem with just a few months ago. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/300 "2013-02-17T15:47:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A low cost option. One with the seeming potential for high effectiveness. > > I like it. > > Therefore, I predict it will be opposed vociferously by the hot-headed liberals. I predict people will manufacture outrage about how important in-person voting is. Define “the hot-headed liberals” in a way that is resistant to nutpicking, and isn’t satisfied by people who are sufficiently far to the left that most of the liberal blogosphere ignores them (e.g. Firedoglake) and I’d be interested in a wager. ETA: if the matter should come to a vote in this Congress, I would predict that less than 10% of the Democratic caucus in Congress would be opposed to this. Second ETA: However, a majority of the GOP caucus in Congress would be opposed to it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380.md?page=16)