# Fox: 102 year old woman had to wait in line 3 hours to vote, "What's the big deal?" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380 "2013-02-15T14:15:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/481 "2013-02-20T19:48:51Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > You should meet the following criteria to become a citizen: 1. Speak the language. 2. Have skills that we need. > > She does neither. She _meets_ neither. _[sigh](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130213005641/fallout/images/d/dd/Oh-you-93067263235.jpeg)_ > [@Debaser](#): > > The current number of illegal immigrants in the US is at least ten million. > > … > > I know you don’t like it being thrown in your face, but do you seriously dispute that there are millions of illegals in the US right now? Really? Here is your phrase again: “illiterate third world non English speaking criminals who we let into the country by the millions”. If you are defining “illiterate” as “incapable of comprehending the English language”, then your statement is redundant. Immigrants incapable of understanding the mode language of a country are _functionally_ illiterate. “Third world” originally meant unaffiliated with the USSR or the USA, though that definition is no longer useful for obvious reasons. For that reason I’d prefer operationalisable terms such as “very low human development”. For the record, Mexico is listed as a “high development” state according to the United Nations Development Programme’s Human Development Report 2011. Referring to illegal immigrants as criminals is merely another redundancy. The final issue with this phrase is the definition of “let”. You personally propose standards to restrict legal immigration more or less already in place, barring the acceptance of family members. So, you would “let” the immigrants you complain about in at almost the same rate as they are “let” in by the US government (Obama’s administration oversaw a 42% increase in prosecutions and record breaking deportations, Clinton’s increased border controls by 35% and implemented many innovations in immigrant detection). > [@Debaser](#): > > I know by the standards of the SDMB this makes me an irrational bigot I don’t think that. I think you believe in government interference in markets. Well done! Leave libertarianism to the wealthy. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/482 "2013-02-20T19:53:14Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No, **pancakes** , it’s a fine example of how political advantage and simple bigotry can be cloaked in respectable robes. Then, “we” didn’t want “the wrong sort of people” in the country, _just as now_. “We” still don’t want “the wrong sort of people” to vote, but that too can be hidden. But the true motives are still as clear as ever, although the chronically fooled such as our friend **magellan01** may never realize it themselves. In this case, a Cato version of immigration law is absolutely not supportable by history. So, you actually _don’t_ understand the point I made. Sigh. I really don’t know what you’re problem is. But I am able to narrow it down. The breakdown seems to have occurred someplace post-reading and pre-responding. Alternatively, between your ears. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/483 "2013-02-20T21:21:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I was trying to rebut the facile dismissal of demands for fairness. Actual fairness under the law is a clearly different arena, one in which one may assert his demand for fairness by legal means What does this have to do with anything? (Maybe it’s an outlier from the discussion? :)) > [@](#): > > fairness in treatment was the plea from the hypothetical nine year old child, and from me here. _What_ hypothetical nine year old? Not that I’m sure I want to know; this is getting way too damned meta. If you want to discuss whether you’re being treated fairly in the Pit, you should start paying your analyst danger money. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/484 "2013-02-20T21:25:11Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, you actually _don’t_ understand the point I made. Sigh. No, your problem is that I understand it better than \*you \*do. :dubious: Since, as we have established on previous subjects, you are absolutely unable to face the fact of your own bigotry no matter how it is shown to you. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/485 "2013-02-20T21:26:42Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > What does this have to do with anything? (Maybe it’s an outlier from the discussion? :))_What_ hypothetical nine year old? Not that I’m sure I want to know; this is getting way too damned meta. > > If you want to discuss whether you’re being treated fairly in the Pit, you should start paying your analyst danger money. This one: > [@Trion](#): > > Why are you so concerned about how two other posters interact? Is it not enough to get people to treat you in the way you think is correct? Must you control other people’s relationships too? > > Frankly, it sounds like your whining about how it’s not fair. My daughter has stopped complaining about that, and she’s 9. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/486 "2013-02-20T21:32:38Z")
Bad, **Trion**! Bad! Go lay down by your water dish! All better now? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/487 "2013-02-20T21:39:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Bad, **Trion**! Bad! Go lay down by your water dish! > > All better now? Your sincerity fairly drips from the page. Leaving none behind. But – you’re immune. And **MaxTheVool** won’t take you to task either. Double safe. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/488 "2013-02-20T21:45:24Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > having an immigration policy that welcomes all does not mean that there would not be any process for those to emigrate here. Look at Ellis Island. It was basically a “welcome all” policy, as we needed workers, but there was a process that people had to go through. They knew who you were, where you came from, where you were going, health status, etc. So, if we were to have an “open borders” immigration policy, there would still be procedures people had to go through. Those who came here without going through the process would be here illegally. Ok, not what I picture when I hear open borders but different strokes and all of that. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/489 "2013-02-20T21:47:56Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Hey, I’ve only been here for two pages or so. > > But my first post to the thread I did comment about how this was a **Bricker** pile on. I should have added that it was undeserved and he was handling it with good grace, but anybody paying attention would already know that. > > That post just really rubbed me the wrong way. You’ve got **Bricker** responding to **MaxTheVool** ’s thoughtful post about his views on things and admitting that the criticism has merit. He’s pushing back on some of it, but it is exactly the sort of interesting conversation that makes this board unique. Then dumb-shit comes along lobbing insults with the safety of knowing he has the mob on his side. > > In addition to being such a jerk move, it’s just so cowardly. **Bricker** ,honor dictates that you remonstrate **Debaser** for not remonstrating you in proportion to your petty and ugly posts in this thread. Remonstrance is remonstrance after all. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/490 "2013-02-20T22:40:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This one: Boy, you sure got the point backwards on _that_, didn’t you? Damn, counselor, what has happened to your brain lately? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/491 "2013-02-20T22:48:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure – I responded to the weakest argument, and the one which fit my admitted bias. Well, I’d say it was more than that, in that I think you had to choose a fairly contrived and unlikely interpretation of what he was saying… and then you used that as the basis for commentary about liberals as a whole. Putting those two things together is pretty Fox-News-y of you. > [@](#): > > But I’d like to suggest a possible additional motive, one you don’t mention, or don’t interpret in quite the same way. > > You remonstrate with me because I respond – I consider what you say, I answer the points you raise, and don’t hide behind the crowd. How could I? What crowd supports my position? > > You don’t take your fellow liberals to task because you sense that – for those that act unreasonably – they would not respond like that at all. > > Any truth whatsoever to that thought? Umm, I don’t think so. I think it’s more that of tens of thousands of posters on the SDMB, the vast majority, even among people with thousands of posts, are just names on the screen to me. Fairly few are people I’ve interacted enough times in enough different threads that I really have a labelled mental box for them. So when someone who I don’t really know from Adam posts in a way that I disagree with, why would I bother getting into it? I don’t know who that person is, and I have no mental investment in how they post. And of course it’s easier to learn who people are when you engage with them repeatedly, and on the SDMB I’m more likely to engage repeatedly with people I disagree with. So I have a much clearer mental picture of you, **Shodan** , **Starving Artist** and **magellan01** than four equally prolific left-leaning posters. Therefore I’m more likely to engage you on matters of this sort which aren’t pure debate-about-topics but more meta-level discussion-about-discussion. Also worth noting is that it’s not like I just jumped into this thread for the sole purpose of criticizing your posting style… I initially wrote post 210 in this thread, in which I did criticize (although not by name) the people you were arguing with. And everyone pretty much ignored it. Then I reentered the thread with post 361, from which our current argument evolved. But it’s not like I just suddenly said “hey, I think I’ll go into that thread and criticize Bricker’s posting style while ignoring everyone else”. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/492 "2013-02-20T23:02:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure – I responded to the weakest argument, and the one which fit my admitted bias. Funny, I always thought that that didn’t actually _accomplish_ anything, beating up on the other guy’s weakest argument. It doesn’t show that you’ve got the better argument; all it really shows is that you want to make it _look_ like you do, without the hard work of actually _having_ that better argument. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/493 "2013-02-20T23:14:51Z")
I just reread **MaxTheVool** ’s post #210, as he suggested to do. It was an excellent post, and the thread could/should have ended right there. The entire post is worth reading, but I’ll just excerpt the part I want to respond to. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > … There’s an interesting question of whether the fact that one 102-year-old lady waited 3 hours to vote in and of itself proves that something is wrong with our voting system. And, in isolation, I don’t think it does. Certainly one can imagine … [that] 5 thousand unlucky individuals waited up to 4 hours in one county in one state because a “perfect storm” of things all went wrong at once, one of whom was a 102-year-old lady. That wouldn’t be a broken system. Problem is, we all know that that doesn’t remotely resemble the actual reality of the election. > … > > (4) As for Bricker, there’s a certain extent to which he’s been right. People have, in fact, been saying overbroad and unrealistic things. We should NOT spend “any amount of money” to reduce voter wait times, nor should we attempt to “guarantee” just about anything, at least literally. But his over-precise, over-literal and pedantic responses have then been met with vastly more hostility and insult than they deserve … Please note that this post was more than 200 posts ago, and the “dialog” between Bricker’s pedantry and the people it irritates just goes on and on. The real problem, IMO, is that Bricker seems trained (like a lawyer?) to seize on any slightly misstated logic and cry “Objection!” hoping to win points for his side. _ **The observation that short waits cannot be absolutely guaranteed is obvious** _, and even the Doper (if any) who appeared to claim otherwise probably understood this. Bricker may have been right to point out the error (I’m not going to hunt through the thread to find the precise point), _ **but the point deserved at most one well-written paragraph and a smiley face** _. Instead Bricker babbles on and on and on and on … lately confusing us by comparing himself to a 9-year old child (:smack: :dubious: ) for no purpose. The rest of us are trying to debate public policy, but Bricker, like an anal-retentive pedant seizes on a minor misstatement and won’t let go. If this were the first time he’d done this, we’d ignore him. But instead this is the nature of most of his participation lately. I suspect he still has the intelligence to make useful contributions, but seems to prefer this pointless threadshitting, _with the apparently intended purpose of irritating_. So I disagree with “vastly more hostility and insult than they deserve.” Like a dog that keeps shitting on the carpet, Bricker needs to be punished until he improves his behavior or goes away. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/494 "2013-02-20T23:44:43Z")
See? Right there, typical impractical liberal idea. No mention of how much it would cost to smack every Republican lawyer in the nose with a rolled up newspaper! Why, the newspapers alone cost maybe fifty cents each. Volunteers will probably do it for free, so they don’t have to be paid, but still… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/495 "2013-02-20T23:51:23Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No, your problem is that I understand it better than \*you \*do. :dubious: Since, as we have established on previous subjects, you are absolutely unable to face the fact of your own bigotry no matter how it is shown to you. Ha! Let me help you out here. I’ve read enough of you posts to state, unequivocally, that there is no subject that I’ve considered that “you understand better than \* do”. None. You simply don’t have the mental chops. This is not so much me tooting my own horn as it is me pointing to the rusty, tinny one that is yours. It would serve you well to accept and remember this. But you’re probably to dim to realize that, too. ::shrug:: ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/496 "2013-02-20T23:53:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This is not so much me tooting my own horn Good thing, that. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/497 "2013-02-20T23:59:46Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Good thing, that. Sure. The fact is that about 80% of the posters on these boards could have made the same comparison between themselves and that one-synapse dolt. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/498 "2013-02-21T00:05:58Z")
> [@](#): > > …This is not so much me tooting my own horn… So two guys are walking along, and they see this dog licking his balls, and one of them says “Damn, I wish I could do that!” And the other guys says “Well, maybe you should try petting him first.” Fud-a-bump-_ting_ ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/499 "2013-02-21T00:41:54Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Ha! Let me help you out here. I’ve read enough of you posts to state, unequivocally, that there is no subject that I’ve considered that “you understand better than \* do”. None. 😛 After all the embarrassment you’ve caused yourself over, say, the definition of marriage, you still don’t even \*know \*how much of a source of laughter you are here? 😛 Go right ahead, toot that horn, start off another round. All you want. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380/500 "2013-02-21T01:38:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Bad, **Trion**! Bad! Go lay down by your water dish! Yay! A nap! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-102-year-old-woman-had-to-wait-in-line-3-hours-to-vote-whats-the-big-deal/650380.md?page=26)