# FOX as a Source? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 4, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998 "2013-03-04T15:05:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/41 "2013-03-06T00:26:47Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > But don’t you think liberal media uses the same sort of tricks? According [to this study](http://www.journalism.org/node/8197) NPR’s Morning Edition was much more positive in stories about Democrats than Republicans in the 2008 presidential election. [Link to graphic.](http://www.journalism.org/sites/journalism.org/files/images/image013.gif) > > The question (I believe) isn’t if Fox is biased–it most certainly is. The question is, is Fox _more_ biased than other news sources. I’m starting to think “no”. Once again, even grating that all have biases, the issue from the OP is referring to accuracy. The evidence is there that shows that in one of the most important subjects of the modern era is being actively misrepresented by FOX. ---
**Author:** ![Kepler1571](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/db5fbb/32.png) [@Kepler1571](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kepler1571)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/42 "2013-03-06T00:37:42Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > Fox news should be treated with the same rules as a Republican party press release since they’re functionally the same thing. Exactly. The network was created by GOP operatives to be their publicity arm. It is literally chartered for that purpose. That makes it different from a “biased” source – it is merely a direct arm of a party, like a 19th century newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/43 "2013-03-06T02:19:51Z")
LOL. It’s up there with the National Enquirer. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/44 "2013-03-06T03:26:26Z")
> [@Bpelta](#): > > A professor of journalism at West Liberty University recently [banned](http://www.mediaite.com/online/professor-bans-students-from-using-fox-news-as-a-source-it-makes-me-cringe/) her students from using FOX News as a source because it’s “biased;” she wrote that it “makes her cringe” and she’d “almost rather you print off an article from the Onion.” Apparently, after public pressure, [she’s](http://www.wtrf.com/story/21200533/controversy-rising-over-wlu-syllabus) “since changed her stance and allowed students to use all **academic sources**.” > > My question for the Teeming Millions: Is FOX News reliable enough to be used as a source in an academic paper by undergrad college students? (Bolding mine.) FWIW I’m a university librarian, so helping undergrads choose sources for their papers is part of my job. I’m wondering if the professor was misquoted in the WTRF follow-up story or misunderstood by the reporter, because the story suggests that she now allows FOX News as a source…but FOX News is not an academic source. If a student came to me for help with an assignment that required “academic sources” (I usually see the term “scholarly sources” used instead) I would take that to mean peer-reviewed journal articles and books from academic publishers. It is sometimes appropriate, even necessary, to cite popular news sources as part of an academic paper, but if the assignment requires that students use only academic sources then FOX News doesn’t count. Neither does MSNBC, NPR, _The New York Times_, _The Washington Post_, or _National Geographic_. It’s not even really a question of reliability or bias, it’s that these are all sources produced for the general public and not by/for scholars. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/45 "2013-03-06T17:24:58Z")
> [@Kepler1571](#): > > Exactly. The network was created by GOP operatives to be their publicity arm. It is literally chartered for that purpose. That makes it different from a “biased” source – it is merely a direct arm of a party, like a 19th century newspaper. And yet, according to [this graphic](http://www.journalism.org/sites/journalism.org/files/images/image011_0.gif) from the study I linked above, Fox is more balanced than CNN or MSNBC when reporting on the 2008 presidential campaigns. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/46 "2013-03-06T17:33:24Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Once again, even grating that all have biases, the issue from the OP is referring to accuracy. The evidence is there that shows that in one of the most important subjects of the modern era is being actively misrepresented by FOX. But we’re talking (I assume) about overall accuracy and I have no doubt that liberal media are inaccurate on topics that fit their agenda. I will point out again that the links you are providing do not compare the accuracy of the different outlets but merely hammer Fox on a particular topic (albeit an important one). It’s quite possible that liberal outlets are equally inaccurate, just at the opposite end of the spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/47 "2013-03-06T17:34:17Z")
No, according to that graphic Fox was more _positive about Republicans_. You are assuming that the _facts_ were neutral. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/48 "2013-03-06T17:42:10Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > But we’re talking (I assume) about overall accuracy and I have no doubt that liberal media are inaccurate on topics that fit their agenda. Discounting your labeling of non-Fox media as “liberal”, why would you assume that other media would _have_ to be as inaccurate as Fox? Do you know of some natural law that states that one network cannot be worse than any other? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/49 "2013-03-06T17:43:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, according to that graphic Fox was more _positive about Republicans_. You are assuming that the _facts_ were neutral. I’m not sure I understand what you are saying. I believe that the graphic above disproves the notion that Fox is a mouthpiece for the GOP and that Fox’s tone is less biased than CNN or MSNBC. The study says nothing about the accuracy of stories; in my view the accuracy of the different outlets is still unproven one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/50 "2013-03-06T17:47:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Discounting your labeling of non-Fox media as “liberal”, why would you assume that other media would _have_ to be as inaccurate as Fox? Do you know of some natural law that states that one network cannot be worse than any other? No, just my own opinion of the media business. Some Dopers seem to think that a natural law states that conservative media must be inaccurate. I believe that Fox _could_ be inaccurate trash, I just haven’t seen much evidence of that. (GIGObuster’s links show Fox to be inaccurate regarding AGW. What I haven’t seen is how inaccurate non-Fox outlets are.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/51 "2013-03-06T17:54:20Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > No, just my own opinion of the media business. Some Dopers seem to think that a natural law states that conservative media must be inaccurate. I believe that Fox _could_ be inaccurate trash, I just haven’t seen much evidence of that. (GIGObuster’s links show Fox to be inaccurate regarding AGW. What I haven’t seen is how inaccurate non-Fox outlets are.) So you think that if others point out specific instances where Fox News either inaccurately reports on/totally skips a major story, all _you_ have to do to is say “They do it toooo!”? Sorry bucky, but that just isn’t good enough. Go back to post #32, where I asked > [@](#): > > Can you tell us some major news stories Fox News covered that wasn’t also covered by the others? Got anything? edited to add: > [@Deeg](#): > > Some Dopers seem to think that a natural law states that conservative media must be inaccurate. But they aren’t just saying it-they’re _showing_ it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/52 "2013-03-06T17:56:14Z")
I’d allow a Fox citation to give evidence that the cited matter is exaggerated, wrong, biased or a lie. Fox news is less accurate than a stopped watch. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/53 "2013-03-06T17:58:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So you think that if others point out specific instances where Fox News either inaccurately reports on/totally skips a major story, all _you_ have to do to is say “They do it toooo!”? Sorry bucky, but that just isn’t good enough. Go back to post #32, where I askedGot anything? The usual response to an assertion is “cite?”. I have seen no cites that prove Fox to be less accurate. Swapping anecdotes still won’t prove anything. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/54 "2013-03-06T17:59:18Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I’m not sure I understand what you are saying. I believe that the graphic above disproves the notion that Fox is a mouthpiece for the GOP and that Fox’s tone is less biased than CNN or MSNBC. The study says nothing about the accuracy of stories; in my view the accuracy of the different outlets is still unproven one way or the other. That only shows that Fox is unbiased if there are _an equal number of negative stories to report on each side_. Do you really think that’s the case? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/55 "2013-03-06T18:06:58Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > The usual response to an assertion is “cite?”. I have seen no cites that prove Fox to be less accurate. Swapping anecdotes still won’t prove anything. There are examples to show that Fox news is _in_accurate at times-the onus is on you to show that other media outlets are just as bad, because that seems to be your assertion in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/56 "2013-03-06T18:10:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That only shows that Fox is unbiased if there are _an equal number of negative stories to report on each side_. Do you really think that’s the case? Overall, yes. Maybe not exactly 50-50 but it’s close. Apparently you are going to argue otherwise, which is a convenient excuse for waving away all studies that show Fox to be less biased. The study doesn’t just discuss tone of reports, however, but also total number of stories. For example, according to the study: > [@](#): > > NPR was also the one outlet where there was a marked difference between the total amount of airtime vs. total number of stories. While 24% of the campaign stories were about a Republican candidate, just 15% of the total airtime was spent on them. This suggests that stories about the Republican candidates were brief, creating an even greater gap in the total coverage of Republicans and Democrats. So not only was NPR more favorable towards Democrats, it gave them much more airtime, by a wide margin that can’t be waved away as the natural order of things. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/57 "2013-03-06T18:12:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There are examples to show that Fox news is _in_accurate at times-the onus is on you to show that other media outlets are just as bad, because that seems to be your assertion in this thread. Are you claiming that liberal media are never inaccurate? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/58 "2013-03-06T18:12:40Z")
> [@Bpelta](#): > > My question for the Teeming Millions: Is FOX News reliable enough to be used as a source in an academic paper by undergrad college students? Absolutely, and IMNSHO, it’s much more reliable than most of the mainstream media. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/59 "2013-03-06T18:15:15Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Absolutely, and IMNSHO, it’s much more reliable than most of the mainstream media. Can’t…say…what…I want…in Great Debates…must…hold it… ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998/60 "2013-03-06T18:17:49Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Absolutely, and IMNSHO, it’s much more reliable than most of the mainstream media. Just for the record, I have seen no evidence that this is true, either. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-as-a-source/651998.md?page=4)