# Fox News and Milum **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 19, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400 "2003-10-19T20:02:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/1 "2003-10-19T20:02:04Z")
**Milum** has started [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218289) thread in GD, with the stated purpose of carrying on the “good discussion” from [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218224). The topic? Why liberals hate Fox News. **Milum** has some ideas. I have chosen some of the more pugnacious examples and reproduced them below: > [@](#): > > Because they hate the American people because they consider them low-life rabble who are coarse and fundamental in their way of thinking? > > Because the election was stolen from Al Gore and then someone stole Al Gore and put him away in a lock box where he can’t run for president as a martyr? > > Because they wanted the Iraqi people to work out their difficulties with Saddam on their own and then Bush and Fox and the Devil intervened and today the Iraqis are free? “Good discussion” my ass, **Milum**. This thread is shit. And the only reason you opened it was to stir up trouble. This is _not_ a great debate. This is not a great anything. It’s shit. A steaming pile of useless, mindless, pointless shit. How do I know? Well, if you were _serious_ about debating this, you wouldn’t have needed two posters to ask you to take a serious position on the topic. Here’s the final sentance from the “serious” proposition: > [@](#): > > And Liberals, who need public information distributed that promotes the social ideas of a self-selected elite, hate that which disrupts their grand march towards socialism. Are you fucking kidding me? Self-selected elite? Grand march towards socialism? What the hell are you smoking? When challanged on a point which appears to be presented with at least some amount of seriousness ("[A] shift in [the American people’s] prime source of information from traditional news to FOX…"), **Milum** responds by adding this challenge to a [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218289#post4129129) which is no more than a summary of the thread up to that point, concluded with this zinger: > [@](#): > > Whew! Being a OP poster child for the right on this leftman’s board is not a happy chore for the fainthearted, but I guess it could be worse; I could be declared a troll and banished. Poor baby. Can I help you with that cross, dipshit? **Milum** also gives a “response” to **Soup\_du\_jour** in the same post: > [@](#): > > Anyway thank you Soup\_du\_jour, for your opinion that Liberals hate Fox News because it is a blatantly biased source of news that claims to be objective. Your post was refreshingly honest in your opinionated views. **Soup** ’s post won’t be making any best-of threads anytime soon. But at least he gives a reason for hating Fox News. Which is what the OP asked for. But instead of responding to someone who _answered the fucking question in his own damn OP_, Milum dismisses the post with a sarcastic remark. Finally, **Chefguy** and **'possum stalker** arrive to inject some sense into this poor excuse for a debate: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Chefguy_ > So you present unfounded arguments, are taken to task for them, then refuse to debate and instead mock the people responding to your nitwitism? From what I’ve read from other conservatives on this board, they would be appalled to have such an ill-spoken person as yourself as a poster child for any of their causes. I know I’m done here. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by 'possum stalker_ > Milum , Logic and coherent arguement rule in GD, not ideology. I often agree with Sam Stone because he makes logically points, rather than going for the Right-Wing Victim schtick. > And Sam Stone is mighty conservative. > > So to answer my own question, you are showboating (maybe Witnessing is a better word) and shan’t address any of the arguments in the closed thread. Or any arguments anywhere. Too bad. woulda been innersting. You’re not doing yourself any favors with this one, **Milum**. What compelled you to post such a thread? ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/2 "2003-10-19T21:10:44Z")
Every single time I’ve seen Milum post, he’s been full of shit, in tone alone if not in both tone and content. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/3 "2003-10-19T22:53:05Z")
Ooo! I don’t like it here in the Pit. Most of the people here seem lacking in the most elemetry of refindments. Hey you! You over there! You seen\*\* cheddarsnax\*\*? No, I don’t want to fight, dumbass , I just want to know if you’ve seen **cheddarsnax** …yeah? well UP YOURS TOO BUDDY!.. damn punk kid. Hmmm…looks like everyone here is a young buck. Little boy bulls looking for a fight. Say boo and they’ll scatter like flies. Hell, I was a kid once…walking around saying “fuck” and puffing up and kicking stray cats… hey you…laying on the floor, you seen **cheddarsnax**? …no man I ain’t holding…Oh yeah? Thanks man, I owe you…(walks over to a disheveled guy standing unsteadily against the far wall of the pit.) Hey **cheddarsnax**! (shaking hands) Boy am I glad to see to see you. You won’t believe the wierdos and crackheads I’ve meet down here in this godforsaken pit. So tell me man…whats up? **cheddarsnax** : Oh hi Milum, good to see you. Yeah. kinda seedy crowd down here…uh Mr. Milum, I, uh, was sorta disappointed in what you said in Great debates. I…uh…thought is was…uh…shit. **Milum** : shit? **cheddarsnax** : Yeah, you know, like you said mean things to **Chefguy** and **'possum stalker**. **Milum** : Gee whiz **ched** , I didn’t mean no harm. Shoot I’m a bit opinionated but heck, I figger that most folks can defend themseves, besides when a man’s alone with a pack of ankle-snipping dogs you have to kick one every now and then to make your point. \*\* cheddarsnax\*\*: Well **Milum** you certainly didn’t make any new friends with that post. Whatever compelled you to post such a thread? **Milum** : You know **cheddarsnax** , when that Administrator cut off the Great Debates thread after she banned the Troll without so much as a how-you-do, I got mad. It just wasn’t right not to let good standing members continue to voice their opinions just to punish the troll. So help me **cheddarsnax** , if I had it to do over I’d let the thread die and try to understand the points of my buddies the liberals. Friends? (smiles… extends hand.) \*\* cheddarsnax\*\*: ( looks at Milum’s extended hand warily, then smiles and stands up and embraces Milum and says…) Friends. And then the two newly found friends, one a fire breathing liberal, and one a mild mannered reformed conservative, walk together out from the dreariness of the dark dank pit and back again into the sunlit world of the Great Debates. \_\_\_ **The End** ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/4 "2003-10-19T22:53:20Z")
Let me advance a humble proposal. When one of our brethren in these boards asks a question that appears to be directed more toward garnering justification for facts assumed by the question than toward actually having an honest debate, the appropriate course is to let someone else step into the septic pit to do battle. Our friend’s “why do liberals do one thing or another” questions exist for the sole purpose of getting fellow posters to tacitly admit that liberals do indeed do one thing or another, not to try to find out why that might happen. It is like flinging feces back at the residents of the monkey house–it entertains the Hell out of the monkeys but you end up covered with monkey shit. Arguing questions that assume a false premise is not a productive activity. Don’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/5 "2003-10-19T23:52:55Z")
It’s the “politics of personal destruction.” Or, as GWB might say, “Heh.” Why not just debate Fox News without having to define what an undefined class of people (liberals) thinks? If being conservative means sucking up to Republican leadership, I’m a liberal. If being a liberal… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/6 "2003-10-20T00:18:58Z")
What’s a “liberal”? Is it anything like a heffalump? ---
**Author:** ![Short](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Short](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Short)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/7 "2003-10-20T00:19:29Z")
Thanks, **cheddarsnax,** this is a well deserved pitting. **Milum** , you did not provide any substance to support your assertion that Fox News is unbiased. In fact in your first post, you didn’t even take a position. Instead you phrased your attack as a loaded question. You may not see this as a problem, especially if you are a fan of the “debate” style of Bill O’Reilly. In real debates, however, it is necessary to state a view and support it with actual evidence. Your second post (“Resolved…”) is actually a substantial improvment, despite the sarcasm. You stated an actual viewpoint, namely that “FOX refects a basic need of the american people to extract accurate information from the outside events…” Why is it necessary to state a viewpoint? If you never state a view, you are never wrong. You, in essence, risk nothing. You ask your opponent to defend a viewpoint, while you never attempt to defend your own, since you have not stated one. It is a rather dishonest debating tactic Stating a viewpoint is only part debating, however. You must also defend your viewpoint with facts. In some cases, you may even be required to give evidence that your facts are true. If your opponent makes an argument which is contrary to your own, it is necessary to demonstrate that either (i) You opponent has faulty premises or (ii) your opponent used faulty logic. Note that demonstrating means making a convincing case for, or otherwise showing. It does not mean simply asserting. Does that clarify the issues for you? **Milum** , insead of saying you _know_ this already, how about showing me by putting it into practice. Will we see you back in [The GD thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218289)? -Short ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/8 "2003-10-20T00:38:04Z")
So, **Milum** , have you stopped beating your wife? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/9 "2003-10-20T00:58:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milum \* > **Most of the people here seem lacking in the most elemetry of refindments.** This is cracking my shit up, for obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/10 "2003-10-20T02:08:10Z")
**Milum** is a prime example of a **pop-con**. Pop-con is the political equivalent of pop-music. This little bit from the Weekly Standard editor David Skinner nicely sums up "pop-con"ism as opposed to some of the other, more thoughtful and realistic form of conservatism. > [@](#): > > **[Rush Hour](http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/209binrw.asp)** > > …the Coulterization of the American right. Conservatism as partisan sport– **the opposite of principled, ideological debate** –has become major entertainment and helped debase much right-aisle political debate into an **undifferentiated noise of team-rooting**. **Milum** is a pop-con. **Pop-Con** remeber, you heard it here first ---
**Author:** ![Short](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Short](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Short)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/11 "2003-10-20T02:15:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Short \* > Will we see you back in [The GD thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218289)? Hmm. Thread’s locked. I guess not. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/12 "2003-10-20T02:18:31Z")
So far, it just sounds like he’s full of crap. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/13 "2003-10-20T02:57:29Z")
Okay. Here’s a better reason why I hate Fox News. An [interesting Op-Ed](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27061-2003Oct14.html) appeared in the Washington Post a few days back. Apparently, watching Fox News makes you less informed about current events. > [@](#): > > _From the linked article_ > \*\*In a series of polls from May through September, the researchers discovered that large minorities of Americans entertained some highly fanciful beliefs about the facts of the Iraqi war. Fully 48 percent of Americans believed that the United States had uncovered evidence demonstrating a close working relationship between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. Another 22 percent thought that we had found the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. And 25 percent said that most people in other countries had backed the U.S. war against Saddam Hussein. Sixty percent of all respondents entertained at least one of these bits of dubious knowledge; 8 percent believed all three. > > The researchers then asked where the respondents most commonly went to get their news. The fair and balanced folks at Fox, the survey concludes, were “the news source whose viewers had the most misperceptions.” Eighty percent of Fox viewers believed at least one of these un-facts; 45 percent believed all three. Over at CBS, 71 percent of viewers fell for one of these mistakes, but just 15 percent bought into the full trifecta. And in the daintier precincts of PBS viewers and NPR listeners, just 23 percent adhered to one of these misperceptions, while a scant 4 percent entertained all three.\*\* (A pseudo-registration is required to view the article.) _Fox News does a markedly poor job in informing its viewership of what is going on in the world, which is what a news organization is supposed to do._ That’s good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/14 "2003-10-20T03:24:13Z")
Interesting numbers, **Soup.** Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/15 "2003-10-20T06:59:46Z")
Damn\*\* short\*\*, you were right, the damn _feds_ have closed the damn thread. Hmm…I guess I’ll just hav’ta stay down here in the damn pit until the damn question at damn hand recieves some sort of damn resolution. (hey! This is fun!) Ok boys and girls, gloves off. On the advice of others here I will draw back, rephrase the question, gather some selected opinions from self-important people that many of you people call cites of facts, and then return again to this vulgar pit throwing beer bottles and kicking tables. See you in the PM. ---- Milum ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/16 "2003-10-20T07:34:33Z")
At some point, **Milum** , you might pause to wonder whether there is a _reason_ why people keep calling you an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/17 "2003-10-20T07:40:40Z")
It’s because we’re all stupid liberals who hate him for shining the light of truth in the dark, murky recesses of our cowardly, America-hating ways. Yessss, we hates nasty **Milum** , we doesssss, gollum, gollum… ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/18 "2003-10-20T08:00:49Z")
**Milum** is a pointless, boring bullshitter. Don’t pay attention, and maybe he’ll go away. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/19 "2003-10-20T11:39:13Z")
Yep… I agree with the above posters. Besides if Fox News is unbaised and balanced and center… wow… give me Goebbels again for some nice right wing stuff. Christ Milum… what Socialism in the US ? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400/20 "2003-10-20T11:51:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Milum \* > \*\* On the advice of others here I will draw back, rephrase the question, gather some selected opinions from_ self-important people\* Milum \*\* Wow. It’s been a while since we’ve encountered anyone as self-important as you… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-and-milum/208400.md?page=2)