# Fox News Channel is not biased **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089 "2005-06-20T18:14:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/1 "2005-06-20T18:14:59Z")
Thanks to the efforts of the folks from [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321859&page=1&pp=50'), I have learned a great deal about how to argue away bias. With these tactics in mind, I now feel confident in being able to defend a proposition I previously thought was indefensible: Fox News is not remotely biased. I defy anyone to give me examples of their bias. I can defend pretty much any practice of theirs, now that I know all the acceptable tactics. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/2 "2005-06-20T18:16:37Z")
Your link goes to microsoft. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/3 "2005-06-20T18:17:30Z")
You posted > [@Bricker](#): > > [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321859&page=1&pp=50'), I think you mean [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321859). Yours had two "http"s in it. ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/4 "2005-06-20T18:18:35Z")
Actually, his link has an extra http in it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/5 "2005-06-20T18:19:19Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Your link goes to microsoft. Yeah, Microsoft has been very influential along these lines. :smack: > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > You postedI think you mean [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321859). Yours had two "http"s in it. Yep. Thanks for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/6 "2005-06-20T18:28:03Z")
This needed its own thread? –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/7 "2005-06-20T18:35:21Z")
Speaking of Miscrosoft: here is Microsoft’s own Slate on this subject: [http://slate.msn.com/id/2119864/](http://slate.msn.com/id/2119864/) > [@](#): > > Fox News Admits Bias! > Its London bureau chief blurts out the political slant that dare not speak its name. > > The usually disciplined foot soldiers at Fox News have long maintained that their news organization is not biased in favor of conservatism. This charade is so important to Fox News that the company has actually sought to trademark the phrase “fair and balanced” (which is a bit like Richard Nixon trademarking the phrase “not a crook”). No fair-minded person actually believes that Fox News is unbiased, so pretending that it is calls for steely corporate resolve. On occasion, this vigilance pays off. Last year, for example, the Wall Street Journal actually ran a correction after its news pages described Fox News, accurately, as “a network sympathetic to the Bush cause and popular with Republicans.” Getting one of this country’s most prestigious newspapers to state that up is down and black is white is no small public-relations victory, and if we can’t admire Fox News’ candor, we can at least marvel at its ability to remain on message. Or rather, we could admire it, before Scott Norvell went and shot his big mouth off. > > Norvell is London bureau chief for Fox News, and on May 20 he let the mask slip in, of all places, the Wall Street Journal. So far, the damage has been contained, because Norvell’s comments—in an op-ed he wrote decrying left-wing bias at the BBC—appeared only in the Journal’s European edition. But Chatterbox’s agents are everywhere. > > Here is what Norvell fessed up to in the May 20 Wall Street Journal Europe: > > > [@](#): > > > > Even we at Fox News manage to get some lefties on the air occasionally, and often let them finish their sentences before we club them to death and feed the scraps to Karl Rove and Bill O’Reilly. And those who hate us can take solace in the fact that they aren’t subsidizing Bill’s bombast; we payers of the BBC license fee don’t enjoy that peace of mind. > > > > Fox News is, after all, a private channel and our presenters are quite open about where they stand on particular stories. That’s our appeal. People watch us because they know what they are getting. The Beeb’s institutionalized leftism would be easier to tolerate if the corporation was a little more honest about it. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/8 "2005-06-20T18:41:09Z")
I don’t think so…but I’m a moderate so I don’t count. Try this one, Bricker. It’s from Scott Norvell, London Bureau Chief for Fox News (as quoted by [Slate](http://slate.msn.com/id/2119864/) quoting Wall Street Journal Europe. > [@](#): > > ``` > Even we at Fox News manage to get some lefties on the air occasionally, and often let them finish their sentences before we club them to death and feed the scraps to Karl Rove and Bill O'Reilly. And those who hate us can take solace in the fact that they aren't subsidizing Bill's bombast; we payers of the BBC license fee don't enjoy that peace of mind. > > Fox News is, after all, a private channel and our presenters are quite open about where they stand on particular stories. That's our appeal. People watch us because they know what they are getting. The Beeb's institutionalized leftism would be easier to tolerate if the corporation was a little more honest about it. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/9 "2005-06-20T18:42:02Z")
Bernard Goldberg admitted to bias at CBS News. Do I assume that we can all agree that there is bias at CBS as well, based on Goldberg’s admission? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/10 "2005-06-20T18:43:05Z")
I’m getting this incredible sense of deja-vu. are you? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/11 "2005-06-20T18:52:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Bernard Goldberg admitted to bias at CBS News. > > Do I assume that we can all agree that there is bias at CBS as well, based on Goldberg’s admission? I will start a thread on CBS in a moment, lets stick with FOX for now. Is Norvell a liar? Or is he just misinformed? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/12 "2005-06-20T18:55:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Bernard Goldberg admitted to bias at CBS News. > > Do I assume that we can all agree that there is bias at CBS as well, based on Goldberg’s admission? So you’re admitting that your premise is flawed, Bricker? The question in this thread is that Fox News is unbiased…not that CBS is unbiased. And in the other thread it’s about NPR. It’s a man losing an argument who changes the target. Here’s more for you: From an Analysis of Cable TV Content from [Journalism.org](http://Journalism.org) and the Project for Excellence in Journalism… > [@](#): > > Fox was measurably more one-sided than the other networks, and Fox journalists were more opinionated on the air. The news channel was also decidedly more positive in its coverage of the war in Iraq, while the others were largely neutral. At the same time, the story segments on the Fox programs studied did have more sources and shared more about them with audiences. > [@](#): > > In the degree to which journalists are allowed to offer their own opinions, Fox stands out. Across the programs studied, nearly seven out of ten stories (68%) included personal opinions from Fox’s reporters – the highest of any outlet studied by far. > [@](#): > > Fox journalists were even more prone to offer their own opinions in the channel’s coverage of the war in Iraq. There 73% of the stories included such personal judgments. On CNN the figure was 2%, and on MSNBC, 29%. > > The same was true in coverage of the Presidential election, where 82% of Fox stories included journalist opinions, compared to 7% on CNN and 27% on MSNBC. From [here.](http://www.stateofthemedia.org/2005/narrative_cabletv_contentanalysis.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/13 "2005-06-20T18:58:30Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > So you’re admitting that your premise is flawed, Bricker? The question in this thread is that Fox News is unbiased…not that CBS is unbiased. And in the other thread it’s about NPR. No, no – I’m just trying to nail down what arguments are permitted to prove what conclusion. “Insider at [network] Admits Bias.” That was offered above to prove bias at Fox. I want to make sure that “Insider at [network] Admits Bias” is agreeable to everyone as a proof of bias. Is it? Or not? > [@](#): > > From an Analysis of Cable TV Content from [Journalism.org](http://Journalism.org) and the Project for Excellence in Journalism… I see. An analysis from a third-party group. Is THAT acceptable as proof of bias? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/14 "2005-06-20T19:01:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Bernard Goldberg admitted to bias at CBS News. > > Do I assume that we can all agree that there is bias at CBS as well, based on Goldberg’s admission? I see it, but on few occations, I also see many times when they showed a right wing bias, it is naive to pretend it is there all the time, in the end the corporations who own the gig guide what appears on the tube or the radio, whatever leftist bias you see it is only peanuts compared to what one hears on the media that does accept to have a bias. Like in a paraphrased promo recently heard in Air America: “Here is where you can find the so-called media liberal bias!” And indeed, there is no freaking way that I would call CBS or CNN biased to the left after hearing only one hour of Air America, the question to you is: do you deny that any perceived bias in the mainstream media pales in comparison to what a really left leaning biased source would be? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/15 "2005-06-20T19:02:05Z")
If all you want to do is pout, that’s what the Pit is for. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/16 "2005-06-20T19:02:04Z")
Again, I think you’re dodging. CBS is a red herring you’re injecting as a disingenuous attempt to get away from what is an unsupportable proposition. And you’re attempt (which was, frankly, predictable) to counter the source above (which only agrees with statements from a Fox News executive!) really means this debate was pointless. If, in effect, you can hand wave away all cites then we’re back to ‘he said/she said’. And setting up a debate that way is just dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/17 "2005-06-20T19:13:30Z")
**Bricker** : What, to you, would consitute proof of bias at a given network? Personally, I think it’s damn hard to prove. Perhaps a mission statement from the BoD saying “we strive to slant the news left/right”. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/18 "2005-06-20T19:14:47Z")
Personally, here is how I understand Bricker’s [del]pit rant[/del] OP > [@Bricker](#): > > Thanks to the efforts of the folks from [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321859&page=1&pp=50'), I have learned a great deal about how to argue away bias. I see bias in impartial reports stating negative things my idols have done. In the last thread, people tried to show me that I see bias, because I am biased. I don’t believe them. > [@](#): > > With these tactics in mind, I now feel confident in being able to defend a proposition I previously thought was indefensible: Fox News is not remotely biased. Thus, I don’t believe they were actually making good points, but that they were using rhetorical tricks. > [@](#): > > I defy anyone to give me examples of their bias. I can defend pretty much any practice of theirs, now that I know all the acceptable tactics. I will use the same (non-existant) rhetorical tricks to defeat what example people show me of bias. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/19 "2005-06-20T19:16:35Z")
By your logic Bricker, in this [article](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160081,00.html) posted on Fox news web site; the first article I opened with a byline; I will point out the bias by bolding the words that indicate bias > [@](#): > > UNITED NATIONS — Oil-for-Food is the \*\*biggest scandal ever \*\* to hit the United Nations, but it is just one of many scandals erupting at the world body – \*\*all symptoms of trouble at the core. \*\* > > The \*\*latest shocker \*\* intersects with Oil-for-Food, but centers on separate activities in the U.N. procurement department, where a longtime U.N. staffer handling tens of millions of dollars worth of contracts for a variety of U.N. operations is entwined in a father-son apparent conflict of interest similar to the one that engulfed Secretary-General Kofi Annan and his son Kojo. > > The story points to a **pattern of crony connections and questionable practices at the United Nations** , including family ties between U.N. officials and the organization’s multi-billion dollar contracting business for goods and services. Along the way it raises fresh questions about the \*\*already battered credibility \*\* of the U.N.-authorized investigation into Oil-for-Food, led by former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker. > > etc… Q.E.D. Ok enough with the smarty-pants comments. Do you see how ridiculous it is to pull out certain phraseology? When writing, for print, TV, or radio, one must simply add qualifiers or all news would be: “Fire in apartment, four residents killed.” It doesn’t necessarily convey bias. It may, but then again, it might just be to make a point, or to make the article more interesting to read. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089/20 "2005-06-20T19:17:24Z")
While I am absolutely pro NPR and do not believe that they have a significant bias in their reporting, I will agree with **Bricker** that there were some lousy arguements used in that other thread that simply hurt the non-biased arguement. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-channel-is-not-biased/309089.md?page=2)